BPD tantrums, rages, and emotional fall out: what can one do?

People with Borderline Personality Disorder appear to have anger management issues. Frequent or volatile outbursts, tantrums, or physical violence are common ways in which Borderlines react when they feel angry. With women, BPD anger is vitriolic, hateful, and emotional. With men, it is more physical, confrontation, and out of control. Being fair, however, there are many cross-overs in terms of the kinds of anger experienced by BPD in both sexes.

I have found that I have a very short fuse, and that I blow up over little things after days or weeks of frustration have been pent up in my mind. In general, I’m a reserved person, so instead of showing negativity publicly around people in small amounts ( thus venting a little ) I tend to “save it” until I am home, around close friends, or others with whom I feel close to; because I feel that no matter what I do, say, throw, or break, they will generally still like me afterwards ( hopefully ).

But it is important to emphasize that BPD anger is different from “normal” anger or frustration. Here are a few examples from my own experiences:

  • BPD Anger is uncontrolable, the rage takes over and all self-control and emotional regulation evaporates.
  • With men, it is physical and confrontational. I will threaten, push, punch, or otherwise harm others when I am really going off the deep end. Other times, I will punch the wall, break things, or damage property.
  • BPD anger is reckless. I can remember a few episodes in which anger and driving made for a bad mix. One night, after finishing work at a restaurant bar, I was in a very angry emotional state. The result was disastrous: I got into my car and sped down country roads with little regard for posted speed limits or other people. When I approached a turn, I was going so fast that I completely went off the road and into a someone’s front yard. In a matter of seconds, I had ruined a stone wall, damaged a tree, spun 360 degrees around, and completely totaled the car. Had I been “in control” of my emotions, this never would have happened.
  • BPD anger is self abusive. In college and the years following college, I can remember getting so angry that I physically would cut myself in a vain attempt to express the pain I was feeling. One time, I was so mad at my parents that I took a dull dinner knife and slashed at my left arm in hopes of making them feel the pain I was feeling about myself. Of course, this didn’t work, and the result was a terrible incident which left me and them with terrible emotional scars.
  • Speaking personally, when I feel rage towards women, I have rape or sexual violence thoughts. *** LET ME BE CLEAR: I HAVE NEVER HIT, RAPED, OR OTHERWISE HARMED A WOMAN IN MY LIFE *** – but that doesn’t mean the thought hasn’t crossed my mind when I’m flying off the handle. The feelings of abandonment, failure, and loss of love that comes with love and emotional commitments to others tends to give rise to fantasies of showing them “who’s boss”, in a cowardly hope to control them and quell one’s own feelings of worthlessness.
  • BPD anger makes one say horrible things. When I am in a BPD tantrum, not only do I speak my mind, but also throw in the kitchen sink, using every emotional spade I can gather to harm the opposing party. I say horrible things, pass judgments, and often do so to the point that one single episode of my anger ruins the entire relationship forever. I have lost friends in a matter of minutes over BPD anger.
  • BPD anger is overly-dramatic. Because the BPD sufferer is feeling so emotionally charged, angry outbursts can give way to dramatic acts, words, or threats. Although most never come to fruition, on some ocassions, what would otherwise be a passing angry word erupts into a huge scene that troubles everyone in its wake.

For the victims of a BPD rage, I think the important thing to understand – coming from a person with Borderline Personality Disorder – is that for every 5 things a BPD does in anger, maybe only 1 of them are really genuine. The rest are just products of anger and frustration over peripheral issues that don’t have anything to do with the particular event that sparked the BPD rage in the first place.

That said, one should also realize that BPD rages are not necessarily like the temper tantrums thrown by a toddler who isn’t getting his/her milk and cookies before bedtime. It is quite the opposite: the BPD sufferer feels so lost, hopeless, worthless, and desperate that anger and rash emotional behavior feels like the only way out of the situation.

Don’t take a BPD rage personally, but do make sure that you process it and if possible, get help for the BPD person. If you feel anger in return and feel so detested that you can’t even speak to the BPD who threw the fit, it might be better that you talk to a professional and get advice about how to cope with the incident.

I don’t condone or make excuses for my BPD rages. In the days, months, and years following acute outbursts, I often feel guilt and shame. At the same time, I hope the people around me get past the anger and look between the lines for the pain I am feeling. If they can admit that they see the pain, and not the anger at its face value, they have made an enormous leap that is both laudable and extremely beneficial for me as a sufferer of BPD.

In the end, BPD sufferers are mostly motivated by fear and feelings of loss. If you remember this the next time a BPD person you know acts out, you’ll be that much closer to helping this person through the pain that they feel. In fact, by understanding and vocalizing the pain displayed in a tantrum back to the BPD sufferer, it may help prevent future BPD rages, which is the ultimate goal of everyone surrounding a sufferer of Borderline Personality Disorder.

1. Edited for clarity, grammar and spelling – 05/31/2015

363 Replies to “BPD tantrums, rages, and emotional fall out: what can one do?”

  1. how do you manage to control yourself when you rage? I am a BPD suferer myself and sometimes I feel like a monster and cannot control myself.


    1. I have it, and I can tell you that the family gets tired of it, and gets tired of the re runs. They will stop wanting you around, and after too much he’ll from you, They will leave you alone, which is exactly what you’ve been wanting. At the age of 57 and now completely alone, and completely dismissed by all family, i have finally succeeded. I have bpd, and what it amounts to, is people cannot stand to encounter or endure an absolute lunatic, with the reasoning of a 2 yr old screaming baby, in an adult body. Be ashamed of being such a fool. I certainly do. They won’t kiss our ass forever. They cringe when they see us coming. We are dreadful aggravating pests.

      1. I have it, and I can tell you that the family gets tired of it, and gets tired of the re runs. They will stop wanting you around, and after too much he’ll from you, They will leave you alone, which is exactly what you’ve been wanting. At the age of 57 and now completely alone, and completely dismissed by all family, i have finally succeeded. I have bpd, and what it amounts to, is people cannot stand to encounter or endure an absolute lunatic, with the reasoning of a 2 yr old screaming baby, in an adult body. Be ashamed of being such a fool. I certainly do. They won’t kiss our ass forever. They cringe when they see us coming. We are dreadful aggravating pests. Always remember, there are some that will wish you dead. Keep that in mind.

        1. My wife was diagnosed with BPD, to me, by a marraige counselor we were seeing, maybe 10 years ago. He met with us separately and told me the reason he was able to diagnose her so quickly is that he is/was married to a woman with BPD. Unfortunately my wife didn’t like any counselor we went to (after 5 or 6), and I never got to ask more about how to deal with her tantrums. He has since moved back to the city he came from, and I’m still “riding the storm out” alone. Thanksgiving & Christmas are the worst, since my wife has pretty much ran everyone off, including her two grown daughters from her previous marriage. I have no children of my own to run off and hide with, so I came here hoping to learn something helpful. She’s a great woman, when the monster is asleep, but the spawn of a demon when it breaks loose, which is often this time of year. I’m 59, she’s 64, I can’t leave her, and I do love her, I just can’t stand being around her, if that makes any sense.

          1. I completely understand as the wife of one. The abuse is unreal, I’m out. I can’t save him but I need to save what’s left of me.

          2. You can’t stand being around her? Wow. Maybe you should learn how to come up with different coping skills

        2. Dont be so hard on yourself dear. Likely youve had a VERY difficult life and its left you quirky, and you are sometimes unpleasant. Its ok, it happens. I had an abusive upbringing, then had children very young with autism and as much as I loved those kids I could not handle them and had to give them up. As a result, Ive never had a stable family life and therefore cannot sustain relationships or trust with others. Bottom line is we dont trust others and deep down dont want them around, like you said. We are all different, in my case I rarely feel any guilt or shame and I dont really care at all if someone wishes me dead. That said I keep to myself most times anyway. Most of us bpd have survived some very very painful, tragic things whilst we were still growing and trying to make sense of the world. We deserved the love, stability, affection that any child deserves, but we didnt receive it. Be kind and understanding and loving with yourself, it really goes a long way towards feeling better?

      2. I have just been diagnosed with bpd at the age of 41 and I am pretty disgusted
        With your description of our illness

        1. I know Sabrina. People who aren’t diagnosed don’t get it. Yesterday I felt so deeply one of the reasons why is because they treat the homeless here in CA like crap moving them to the other side of the freeway where they have made there home. I screamed out the window, plus I missed my counseling appointment due to traffic. Point is, I feel too deeply and have major sensory over load but I don’t know it that goes with it

          1. It does. I cry over everything. I’m oversensitive to everything I cannot even verbalize how much I related to your commment. This whole thread has brought me to tears cuz I relate to everything.

          2. You screamed out the window?

            I just watched my girlfriend storm through our apartment, take my gifts off the walls, rip her (practically) engagement necklace off her neck, scream profane, disgusting things at me, and drill into me that I am not a man suitable for a relationship, that I should leave and never contact her again, that she is happy we dont have a child together, and that the last 2.5 years were an absolute waste of time. Why? Because I phrased a question incorrectly. I dont know what you experience (Sabrina, you too) , but the horrible, nasty description of what can happen when a BPD sufferer is in crisis mode is perfectly written. I will conclude by exclaiming I do not, and would never say that people with BPD are horrible, nasty people. I love my girlfriend more than life, but when the devil comes out, it is worse than a horror film. And this isn’t even physical!

  2. Speaking for myself, once I fly into a BPD rage, I actually have a very difficult time controlling it. The best way I think to head-off BPD tantrums is to recognize signs of escalation. For example, if my day is going bad and things are starting to pile up in my mind that make me angry, I try to monitor my thoughts more closely, making sure that if I interact with anyone, I do so very carefully so that I won’t explode right in their face.

    My BPD tantrums are like time bombs and are unpredictable. They run the range of acute anger, cursing and hurtful remarks, to violence and self abuse.

    If you feel like you’re reaching your boiling point just take the rest of the day off…Get youself out of any difficult situations and rest. Explain your absense the next day if necessary: it’s far better to call it quits on a bad day than to have a horrible BPD rage.

  3. I was once in a relationship with a BPD, and at the time, I didn’t know about it until I saw the characteristics and got educated on this. I haven’t seen the physical part of it, but he has told me of how he can be. He refuses to talk with me and tells me that I am crazy because I want to be his friend.

  4. I just hate the fact that I think everything is going fine then out of the blue I just explode. I yell, scream, throw things and have no control. Until i get upset try to apologize, get rejected cuz he’s still mad I over reacted then i break down. I’m just so tired of this… I don’t know what to do anymore. I try to get him to understand but I don’t know how!

    1. @Lost
      Your post was from 2009, it’s 2018 now, almost 10 years ago… any positive developments? Perhaps you have learned to deal with it somehow better, like the OP said, to “take the day off” and just be by yourself and to “ride it out”? What about meds, anything that helps you? I hope you let us know and that you truly had some progress one way or the other (either learning how to deal with it, or dealing with it with meds)!

  5. Rejection when i am so painfully exposed and so filled with shame and remorse is pure hell. It feels that all the loving, sweet, and thoutful gestures are trampled and tossed away. The only thing that helps me is to think about what I might want to be done if i were the victim of MY anger–God, he’d rather be in Afganistan! Sometimes i just write a poem or buy a little gift that would show my love w/out exposing myself for ridicule and give it to him when he’s cooled off.

  6. I was in a relationship/marriage with someone whom has a BPD as well as Bi-Polar mania. I have to give kudos and say to those that suffer from this to keep up the good fight. I admire you all very much. But in all honesty, the suggestions that persons whom suffer from this are giving are really great and I applaud you for doing these things for yourselves. However, without proper supervision by a medical provider of medications and cognitive behavioral therapy these ideas and attempts are meaningless. So for the sake of others if you really love them, don’t just try to handle it on your own. My ex-wife refuses to get help for her problems and continues to deny she has them to this very day. She has tried the writing things down, thinking things through, etc.. And now, because she refuses to get the help we have a two year old daughter that has to witness the same things I lived through. And if anyone thinks I’m overexaggerating, they should have witnessed our daughter with a broken collar bone at 8 months old because of this. Not only that, but since we’ve been divorced I now have to carry on nearly a daily basis the effects of her BPD. That’s why we’re headed back into court to hopefully correct this once and for all.

  7. I can’t understand sometimes how my boyfriend manages to stay in the relationship after my tantrums. It doesn’t mean though that they are small or light, this week I’ve had few days straight with them, and I get to the point where I just can’t and don’t wanna live like this anymore. Sometimes I even think about taking some time away, because the more I see I hurt him (even for a while, for he says it goes away), the more I hurt myself for having no control and such.

  8. i’m seriously sick of all these bpd forms that preach understanding and love to the person with bpd. like somehow, if we educate ourselves as non-bpds, you will all get better. the reality of it is, you shit on people. and then want them to stick around and help you through it. it’s all about you and your bpd. meanwhile, us non-bpds are suppose to always be the bigger person, and “read between the lines”. if i ever meet another bpd, i will run the other way. you don’t deserve my time, or to share my space in this life.

    1. YES. THIS. I was psychologically destroyed by my borderline mother. As an adult, I’ve been diagnosed with C-PTSD, caused by her abuse. As a teen I begged her to get some help. She refused, because what would people think if they found out she was seeing a psychiatrist? I know it’s not fair for me to assume that all borderlines are evil like my mother. But for the sake of self-protection, I’ll never have any relationship with one again.

      1. In Ireland C-PTSD isn’t a recognised psychiatric diagnosis. Those who suffer from it are diagnosed with BPD as the symptoms are so similar that they meet the Criteria for this diagnosis too. As an abuse survivor I find the stigma attached highly insulting. If I were to be diagnosed with C-PTSD I would be met with more compassion by the medical, psychiatric, not to mention local community. As abuse survivors, the BPD diagnosis sucks. It makes people like me feel positively horrible about ourselves and question if we deserved the abuse. If you’re called evil by a nun, then a foster parent…and you are given a diagnosis like this as an adult, it makes you question. Then you read comments on a forum by people who don’t know you…me…and we…or at least I, feel like crap.

    2. Instead of responding like an ass, you can say you understand maybe WHY it occurs but you aren’t willing to participate in helping to manage that day in and day out. Keep in mind as the article states “they” aren’t CHOOSING to do that. Course doesn’t mean you should tolerate it but when you love someone you may think differently. No reason to be that damn inconsiderate about it.

    3. I am in love with someone who I suspect has this disorder. I love him dearly and committed for life. But he had a rage and broke up with me. I am devastated. He is precious and only during his rage does he show anything but awesome. I know he can’t help it. However I know I walk in alot of Grace and mercy from God. A little prayer goes a long way. I am praying he comes back to me. By the way I have a very good background. Also decent looking. So I’m not desperate. Just because you have this disorder doesn’t mean you can’t be loved. Nor does it mean they don’t have a love chip. You must not have a mercy and Grace and kindness and empathy and love chip. Diagnois yourself before judging please. Best wishes on running into karma’s arms God bless you!

    4. I completely agree. I keep finding these women, though. My girlfriend now is BPD, and she lied about it for months. And now we are so entangled it’s hard to get rid of her. I’m not even attracted to her, I’m just with her because I wanted a fling to get over my ex. And of course, I’m still in love with my ex. My love life is a mess. I just wish I could find someone without bpd. It’s like everyone has it.

  9. Hi,

    I’m sorry you feel that way. My guess is you’ve had a bad experience with someone with BPD in your life.

    Some people react more acutely to BPD than others. I think the key is separating the illness from the person. Also, in many cases, people with BPD are struggling with Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome from abuse upbringings. In one sense, someone with BPD is survivor that does not know how to fit into the real world, because all they know is the shitty environment they came from.

  10. thank you for this article. and all the responses to it. it gave me some good insight on BPD and how to help my boyfriend and me work through it. but don’t ever say a person with BPD doesn’t deserve to be loved, because they do. and its really important we get a better understanding of those who suffer from it.

  11. To Anonymous –

    Good, then don’t be with them anymore. Not all of us are just being shitty to people because we can. many of us are working very hard and it is a very hard road. I told my boyfriend that I don’t feel I deserved him and that this just causes me shame, abandonment anxiety, etc. and that I am not ready for a relationship.

    You also have to look at yourself too for staying in as long as you did and not blame the BPD partner for that alone.

    Nice of you to hang in, but then to come down on all people suffering with BPD is not very fair. People you don’t even know.

    Good luck and yes, do run the other way next time. You can’t handle it and some other people can and some of us are working very hard and have a lot to offer anyway.

    Since my BF is not healthy enough to separate himself from me, I did it. I decided I don’t want to be in a serious relationship. I’ve had enough and I don’t want to hurt him either.

    And one of the hard things is that he has not been entirely honest, is not willing to take responsibility and it is just as easy for him to put it on me (the one with the emotional problems) so screw that too….

    Good luck everyone. I am happier single and/or hopefully meeting someone who makes me feel a little more comfortable than this last one did. Honesty is a big deal.

  12. wow! all I can say is were we were we all from the same eggs from a sperm bank? Our cries and our issues are all so much the same. Its like having relatives all over the world from another morphed life form! its just so bloody sad and I can’t believe it’s me it’s happening to. I don’t know if I’m glad now that I’ve been diagnosed or that it would have been better not to have ever found out and having ignorant bliss. Is there hope guys for us? It’s like same pattern different time and relationship! I’m so scared of losing my man, so so scared cos i’ve been so angry lately.
    BTW follow my blog if you want http://bpdiag45.blogspot.com/
    or join my new yahoo bpd group
    or there is my twitter
    these are all new sites cos i’ve only recently been diagnosed

  13. Michelle,

    Thanks for your comment and links! Any websites and resources that can potentially help others is very helpful and greatly appreciated.

  14. Wow I wish I could get away with taking my temper out on others..making them feel they are walking on eggshells and generally being a nasty peice of work and then saying it is “beyond my control” and telling THEM to get help if they dont feel like having anything to do with me!!
    NO behaviour is uncontrollable, by the person doing it, only by the person recieving it!

  15. Hi Sharon,

    Thank you for your comment. It seems like you’ve been on the receiving end of some tantrums and rants, I’m sure. It can be very frustrating, but you need to realize that some people are programmed differently than others.

    Would you tell a mother with postpartum depression to simply “cheer up?”. Would you tell an Iraq or Afghanistan War Vet with PTSD to simply “get over it?”. Or, someone with Bipolar disorder to “get a hold of themselves”?

    These are real problems with real causes: biological and environmental. Please temper this consideration with your frustration with someone losing their cool, which you are entitled to feel as well…

    1. Hi
      My ex girlfriend had a rage at me last night
      The verbal abuse was unacceptable
      She has not apologised!
      Do people who suffer from bpd think I should just ignore it and act as though nothing happened and hug her?

      1. Your girl friend is most likely experiencing an extreme amount of anxiety about abandonment. Try to remember that her illness is not her. Try to separate the two. She’s probably humiliated about her actions, feeling guilty for the way she treated you and too afraid of rejection to apologize. Give her the hug. She truly cannot control these outbursts. People who have BPD experience a pretty logical fear of abandonment, as not many people have the strength to deal with BPD and do in fact, abandoned the sufferers. Especially if their dealing with BPD and other issues as well.

      2. Yup! My bf same. He will say can we stop arguing lol. Can we be friends. And before he has just went bizurk calling me names and criticising me because I didn’t wash his top inside out. I don’t get that sort of behaviour. I can’t ever calm him and he god on and on and on

  16. You’re asking for consideration from others when none is shown by the sufferer during a tantrum stemming from BPD. I agree with that up until a point. If you are actively seeking treatment and making a genuine effort, then compassion should try to be extended whenever possible. The sheer abrasiveness and volatility of the disorder make it extremely hard to deal with, however. Other people might be having a shit day as well, or could be suffering from a disorder that is extremely sensitive to the kinds of behaviour exhibited (one fifth of people supposedly have a mental illness after all. Social anxiety disorder comes to mind as a condition that would be absolutely floored by BPD behaviour). Understanding is a two way street and not carte blanche to take a dump on everyone around you.

  17. Hi,
    I have coined a phrase for my Jekyl/Hyde episodes: The “Vengeance Switch” (copyrighted – ha, ha). Non-borderline disordered people seem to like it. I like it too, because a switch implies that SOMETHING flicked it.

    So, how do I shut the panel door on the “Breaker Panel”? Medication to smooth out my ups and downs, changing my “faulty thinking” with cognitive/DBT type awareness and avoiding people and situations which I have learned will flick the switch (this included ending my marriage to a very good man, but unfortunately one who just caused me to flip to the dark side constantly). I am older and have had more life experience with my rages. I am now able to recognize when it happens. I can almost hear the click of the flick of the switch! This is very exciting for me, because the next step will be to try to flick it back instantly. Maybe I will need another decade of life experience for this! (Hey admin, thanks so much for your blog. It is so good to hear about yours and others’ experiences that are so similar to mine!)

  18. I recently decided to get out of a relationship with my spouse. he has never been diagnosed of this, but i do feel after reading all the material online, that he must surely have this problem. I always wondered what he was all about, but the pain , the fights, the verbal attacks and the complete and total disregards to my needs were hard to look past to realize that he might be genuinely having a problem.

    I am not sure i would have been able to help though, and i was also losing my cool and letting everything he said get to me. It was driving me crazy and on top of it all the blame, the constant need to find faults. God it was hell.

    I know i could not have made him go see a therapist, but i do hope someday he would and try to fix himself slowly. They say BPDs have a hole in their soul, but i also feel, they drill one in the non-BDP partners soul too.

  19. I am borderline, I was diagnosed a little less than a year ago. I am in a low low place right now. I am going to therapy and discussing some tragic event that happen to me at the age of 6. My emotions are going nuts. More than normal. I keep having pictures in my mind of causing damage to myself in ways that I may not recover from. I tried calling my therapist and I can’t get a hold of her.

    Yesterday I woke up and cried for an hour. Today I have been at work all day and I went from angry to incredibly melancholy. I am at work by my self until 7pm, 2 more hours. I keep bursting into tears for almost nothing. My heart is throbbing. My head is spinning. My skin is tingly yet numb. My lip is quivering. My eyes are watery, bloodshot, and saddened.

    And now this bitch says I have a hole in my heart, and I am doomed to drill holes in others heart. Now I’m back to angry. That little BLEEP. If she were strong and smart then she wouldn’t allow a hole to be drilled in her heart. Get help. You suck. I want rip your unholy sole into shreds for thinking you know anything about your ex or any one else with BPD. I have to go. RRRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAAA stupid.

  20. Hi Magdalyn,

    If your therapist is ignoring you, I urge you to drop them immediately and find someone who really understands BPD.

    I too struggle with thoughts of self harm and death, although at the moment I’m semi-functional. I’ve had a few episodes of crying and utter despair. It’s horrible.

    Get another therapist, or better yet go to a hospital and check yourself in. Yes, that sounds like a shitty experience, but if you’re really low and upset, you might irreparably harm yourself or worse.

    Good Luck…

  21. It’s laughable that “Cat” thinks she gets it, but clearly doesn’t. Read her response. This is what they do, and how they do it. Pay attention. don’t be manipulated.

  22. Hey
    Great article from the heart. I’ve been raging since I was a child at my parents siblings and the mental health community. It creates an endless cycle of chaos and I avoid ppl whenever possible b/c of it. So it’s like a self-sacrifice for the consideration of others. When I have to turn to the same ppl I raged on for emotional support or some other help, I just get mad all over again.
    I’m always inconsolable when I get upset and strangely enough reaching out usually makes things worse. The “kitchen sink” strategy is a great description, and after the rage I usually see it as self-defense to protect from total humiliation.
    I agree with Non-BPDs who warn about staying away from BPDs. Who can blame them? Can BPDs ruin lives? Absolutely! There’s definitely a sadistic component of BPD in some cases that’s not just some movie characterization it’s real!
    Even if you have a family member with it, there’s not much you can do w/o getting burned. What’s sad is how the mental health community feels about BPD and perpetuates the rejection or purposefully dx something else for insurance purposes. Medications don’t really help and the bonehead pdocs need to realize that.

  23. I think my husband has got a little of BPD,since he begs me to stay with him and once i stay he asks me to leave, recently he started getting into depression for no reason,he stares blankly nodding his head(rare habit) (I get scared to death). then after some time he turns normal. He has bad shopping habit due to which he has burden of loans, now he also shopped in my card.
    likes expensive stuffs.

    Whenever i threaten to leave or when he’s angry he drives to kill himself. However when he cools he gives excuses for his behaviour, however he is not violent with me.

  24. I am not long out of a relationship with a man I now realize has BPD. I accepted criticizms, accusations, insults which often initially appeared to be compliments, and rages which seemed to come out of nowhere. I walked on eggshells but no matter how careful I was it still happened. He had had a terrible life and I wanted to help him and thought I could. He did me the most enormous favour of ending it, and it was as if I’d been on a roller coaster for 6 months. I hit the ground with a thud and asked myself: what was that about, and where has your brain been? I feel some anger at him for abusing, but much more at myself for allowing my boundaries to be so violated, and for tolerating such poor treatment. I am appalled that I allowed this happen to me at the age of 54 (he is the same age)and at the moment feel no confidence in my ability to choose a functional man who will value me and treat me well.

  25. There is no question that for those suffering from BPD, day-to-day life can be an unrelenting and hellish roller coaster ride. But it is absolutely absurd to think that those who are (hopefully only briefly) in a relationship with you should somehow accommodate, sustain, develop the relationship. The BPD will NEVER improve – they are capable of a level of Satanic, evil rage that is horrifying to witness and profoundly humiliating to receive. And though they may feel shame, they are never truly sorry. I’d argue they are incapable of true remorse. My advice is to identify the signs ASAP and to immediately and permanently break off all contact. Remember, they will never improve – no matter how optimistic and hopeful you are, that brief period of loving affection will give way to profoundly disturbing, explosive rage. Always. All the talk about accepting the BPD is nonsense – they’re asking you to sacrifice your very humanity for them, and they honestly think you should. Get out, don’t look back, do NOT BELIEVE THEM.

  26. Hi, I was diagnosed with bpd 15 years ago and for the last 5 years I thought I had grown out of it so to speak. However, here lately all the same signs and symptoms keep coming back and the one I can’t stop is the anger. I get so mad and lose it over nothing. I’ve always taken the anti depressants. Right now I’m on pristiq. I’m wondering if I need to start all over again with therapy. Why would I go 5 years with virtually no symptoms to having them implode on me all of a sudden? This makes no sense.

  27. I read with laughter the comment by the individual that had very little compassion with BPDs. I understand his reasoning. He and I probably were married to the same person….just kidding. I have read hours and hours trying to understand my wife’s condition. If I used one word to describe it, it would be “BIZARRE”.

    I dated my wife for a few years before marrying. Yes I am stupid. I loved her though….still do. My wife was married to a good guy for 14 years. She said he cheated on her. They divorced. After 3 months, they remarried. After 1 year, they divorced again. Then along comes and idiot……me. I thought she was the greatest fit for me ever. She hung on my every word….thought I was the sexiest, most intelligent, most handsome, most everything……I am not….I miss it by one…..just kidding. She told me the 20 something holes in the walls of the house was mostly damage he did after the affair……I believed her. The seven doors I replaced, she told me he damaged them. He didn’t. Did you know that a 125 pound woman in a BPD rage can rip a door off the hinges? I watched. Rage does not properly define the anger that she exhibits. She has torn up so many things in the house of sentimental value to me. He would regularly hit and slap me and leave huge scratches and red spots. They became worse until I started defending myself. Her violent, violent, over-the-top temper is uncontrollable. I think sometimes she would kill me if she could. Her rage is unpredictable. Sometimes it is triggered. Sometimes as she sits in a quiet room while we are reading quietly, she thinks of something that she perceives as a wrong, that may have happened 2 years ago and undiscussed as to today, will cause her to go into a tyrade and become physical and verbally abusive. The profanity that comes out of her mouth would blush a sailor.

    We married in March of 2009 and I got divorce papers from her in January 2010. The crazy thing. I signed. She hasn’t. Who knows?
    If I turn up dead, please investigate.

  28. I’ve been kind of seeing this woman for a couple months now who suffers from BPD. She’s really a good kind person when she’s not enraged and we get along good. But when she gets mad or upset she seems to get into these uncontrollable emotional states like everyone is describing and it seems like nothing I say or do helps and I only seem to make things worse. I know she really appreciates me being around to help her with the BPD and she says that ice been a huge help but sometimes it seems like I’m the one who sets her off into these rages. I’ve seen my her trash an entire room and ice seen her cause physical self harm when she gets this way. I think she expects so much from me but I can’t do everything even though I want to be able to help her with this illness instead of hindering her. I want to understand BPD better so I know what to do or say in those situations to help her calm down. Any advice? We both like eachother and don’t want the BPD to ruin what could be a really good relationship down the road.

  29. Hi Dane,

    You are a very good person to be in a relationship with a BPD, and even better for being supportive.

    I think the best thing to do is set boundaries. Discuss how BPD gets in the middle of your relationship with your girlfriend, and “limit your liability” – so to speak – by offering to help her cool down after a tantrum, instead of being the victim of a tantrum.

    It’s not fair to you if you have to put up with a disproportionate amount of mental anguish than she does. Be supportive, but tell her you’re not a crutch.

  30. I have been suffering all the same symtoms since I was a child. I have alienated every friend that I have had so now I don’t have any. Everyday I wonder why my husband stays with me I treat him so poorly it saddens me to see my kids run to their roon when I’m having a fit. It irrates me that I can not express how I feel just anger and hurtful words and I tell my husband there is nothing he can do which for now there isn’t I don’t know myself just anger. I tried to go to the doctor and I was told due to budget cuts that I do not qualify for sevices because I’m not a threat. Funny cause I’m about to loose my job which can impact my relationship more I’m in anger managment but it doesn’t help much. I just want to live a normal life whatever that is the same way everyone else does I don’t want to feel paranoid or like I’m acting like a spoiled brat always wondering when my next mood is coming. Would love help or advice on how to reprogram my thought patterns. Would be so much happier. I hate feeling that people have to walk on eggshells and I don’t want to wait to outgrow it.

  31. I am the parent of a 15 year old daughter with BPD. I absolutly adore my daughter, she is my life. However i loathe, hate and detest her BPD.It has taken me 3 years to be able to distinguish the difference between her teenage mood swings and her BPD. It it is an exhausting, thankless task living with a BPD, and as a non BPD (who lives a parallel lifestyle due to her inability to hold down a routine) life is hard. But every day is different, i can honestly say ive never been bored- exhausted yes, bored now!

    There is no way that I would ever abandon my daughter. I feel it is my job to help her come to terms with, and cope with her illness. You either have the ability withi you to deal with all the drama and trauma BPD brings….or you dont! If you cant handle it, dont get involved. It is detremental to the BPD sufferer, and will leave a non BPD shell-shocked for life at how variable the illness can make people behave.

    I think it is important to remember here that it is important to unconditionally love the person who has BPD, but acceptable to loathe the illness itself. Both BPD’s and nonBPD’s need all the love and luck in the world! I wish it to you in abundance :0)

  32. Hi Sammy,

    Thank you for your sincere and honest story. I’m sure that your daughter will understand the emotional, physical, and lifestyle sacrifices you have made for her one day.

    BPD is horrible, there’s no two ways about it.

    It is wonderful that you support your daughter unconditionally.

    Best Wishes!

  33. Wow…..this is very interesting and saddening to read all these comments! I was engaged to a bpd and he doesn’t even acknowledge that he does ALL of the above!to the woman who is 54 and has struggled with anger and personal disappointment! Just stop…..breathe deep ….force your thoughts to think on positive about you! otherwise you are repeating his lies in your mind and YOU are better than that! I understand though… Proud of you for getting out and smart enough to see the signs to RUN!
    I was engaged to a man who owns a hut tub company and gave the illusion that he was successful and financially stable! He was and is not! He’s a con….

  34. That was my perfect example of borderline rage. Because that’s how I felt in that moment. I came to this website feeling like I needed some support and encouragement, and instead got an incredible level of derogatory ignorance from “Anonymous,” who doesn’t even know any of the people he’s writing about.
    It just so turns out that I, as a borderline, only “rage” at people who feel it’s ok to be rude to me (unprovoked, of course, because I am otherwise the friendliest and most considerate person you’d want to meet). But reading these blog comments made my anger go through the roof, because the last thing I needed today was some ignorant imbecile pounding me down for who he thinks I am. I’m debating whether or not to apologize for what I wrote to that ignorant person…. I do feel badly that it was actually published when I didn’t mean for it to be…. my feelings were very real…. but perhaps I shouldn’t have written them because I actually care about whether I hurt people’s feelings or not — and I don’t want him to end up committing suicide because of something I wrote — you never know — so, Anonymous, I will be the bigger person here and say I’m sorry for that comment on November 9th at 12:33 pm.

  35. Hi Readers,

    As a matter of policy, I welcome all comments that are constructive (even critical) of BPD.

    BPD is enormously emotional: there are no two ways about it. Sometimes I can’t control myself.

    There are people who might understand this and others who don’t.

    In any event, I treat this page as a forum for discussion and for expression one’s feelings.

    As a general reminder, any hateful, racist, sexist, etc. comments WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

  36. It’s 3:30AM and I’m not quite sure why I’m writing this other than that part of me feels that if I can put it down in words, then I’ll be a little closer to being done with it.

    After trying as hard as I could possibly try for several years to stay with my partner who has BPD, after learning more patience and humility than I thought humanly possible, I decided tonight to end this relationship definitively.

    I waited a long time before I found my partner.

    I’d dated a number of great guys and had long-term commitments with a few. The break-ups were over fairly mundane things — changes in life goals, loss of interest — and were never spectacular. By the time I met my partner, I was in my late 40s and had pretty much decided that my prospects for a life-long relationship were few, and I was, honestly, OK with that. I have lots of interests. I have close friends.

    My partner and I had been good, and completely platonic, friends for a number of years. We lived on different coasts, but maintained on-going conversations by email and phone regarding the field we both work in, about books and movies we both enjoyed, current events, etc. Since he was in a long-term relationship, I never gave any hint or indication of how much I’d grown to care for him, and how much I secretly wished I could find someone single like him. I’m not the sort of person who’d ever try to break-up another person’s relationship.

    But his relationship ended on its own. Six months later we both happened to be visiting friends in the same city at the same time. One night, we finally had a chance to spend some time together, alone, just talking and laughing and enjoying each other. And, to my amazement, there was that famous moment when we looked at each other and blushed and, one thing leading to another, fell in love.

    I never knew it was possible to love another person as deeply as I came to love him.

    We had great sexual attraction, and all that hot romantic stuff, but there was a great deal more that I’d never experienced before. A sense of incredibly deep mutual caring that’s impossible to describe in words.

    For the first time in my life I felt that I was truly, authentically, loved by someone, and that I truly, authentically knew what it meant to love someone else.

    And then the trouble began.

    Toward the end of our first year together. Flashes of surprising anger, seemingly out of nowhere. I now of course realize that he’d been trying very hard to keep this anger under control, but couldn’t do so indefinitely.

    And these flashes of anger gradually turned into full-on red-faced screaming rages that would last for hours, and were caused be seemingly arbitrary insignificant things.

    And gradually these rages became focused on me.

    Invariably, I had done something wrong — a gesture, a tone of voice, a failure to respond quickly enough to a question, whatever — and it was never, ever, anything I’d done consciously or intentionally to cause frustration, hurt feelings, or anger.

    Most everyone here knows how this plays out.

    At first, I would always apologize. But my being apologetic and my trying to reach out and understand what was going on only made him angrier.

    And then came the crazy tirade of humiliating, degrading, dehumanizing insults and criticisms.

    It was as though he’d spent endless hours giving serious thought to coming up with things he knew would hurt me the most, things I could never possibly forget.

    And then came, as you can all probably guess, my attempts at “setting boundaries.” Which were useless.

    I tried so hard to remain calm and level-headed and make reasonable limits for when and where, tolerable and intolerable. They ended in failure.

    A request, for example, that we “take a break from each other for a couple of hours” until “things were calmer” would elicit even louder yelling and even nastier insults. I can’t count the number of times I drove for hours and hours around the city, sometimes until dawn, just to get away from my partner’s marathon rage.

    Of course it wasn’t all like this. There were fairly long stretches when he was the gentlest, most caring, thoughtful, demonstrative, funny, and all-around adorable guy anyone could ever hope to meet. He was absolutely wonderful.

    But the rage inevitably returned.

    And the one thing that haunts me, even troubles me in a way more deeply than the hurtful insults and criticisms, is how the rage always returned *precisely* at those times when we seemed to have made real, solid, honest-to-goodness progress.

    Which is what made it all the more destructive.

    It was as if he, or his illness, or both — and at this point, frankly, I no longer care about making any distinctions between my partner and his illness — couldn’t bear to live without the rage, couldn’t, in fact, survive without it.

    And I want to say this. I have to say this. I really, truly love him. I know this is true. I know this is a fact. I love him. I love the person he is apart from and beyond his anger.

    And I have to say this, too, because it breaks my heart. Because it will always break my heart.

    A few months ago he had one of his episodes. Completely out of nowhere. And it wasn’t one of his more dramatic bridge-burning flame outs. But it was still pretty bad. And I was tired.

    I was so tired, so full of despair, that I couldn’t do anything more than go out to the garage and sit in an old chair and try to organize my thoughts about what I was going to do with my life, because the life I was living was impossible.

    And all of a sudden my partner very quietly came into the garage and found another old chair and sat down beside me and took my hand and very softly pressed it to his chest. And I could feel his heart pounding.

    And he started to cry and he said to me, “Look, I know I’m crazy. I know I’ve got problems. But I love you so much. I love you with all my heart. You are the most precious thing in the world to me. Please, please don’t leave. Please.”

    I will never forget that moment. Ever.

    Because things did get better for a while. And then, suddenly, they stopped getting better. And I tried with everything that’s within me to make things work. I tried because I love him so much.

    This is a hard story to tell.

    So, tonight. Until tonight we’d had about seven weeks without rage. Seven solid weeks of not just getting along OK, but extremely well, by any standard.

    And tonight, out of nowhere, the rage returned.

    One minute we were talking and laughing and having a good time, and the next minute he was storming around the house, hollering and yelling some of the worst, the cruelest, the ugliest things he’s ever said to me.

    But this time, something was different. In me.

    My heart rate didn’t increase. My mouth didn’t go dry. My mind didn’t start racing with possible ideas and strategies for containing the situation or calming my partner down or for “setting boundaries.”

    I looked at my partner and I heard a voice in my head say, “I love you. I love you more than I’ve ever loved anyone. But I can’t do this anymore.”

    For as much as all that is honest and earnest and moral in me hates the idea of being dishonest with my partner, I’m not going to tell him about my decision.

    Tonight I started to take solid, practical steps, laying the groundwork for ending our relationship. Over the next several weeks, I will put everything in place so that, materially at least, we will both be on solid ground for my departure.

    I won’t pretend that this isn’t like a death. It is a death. I’m going to lose someone whom I love with all my heart. And I’m going to lose this person forever.

    He’ll still be alive, of course.

    But I will have to live with regret for however long it may last, which may be forever. I don’t know that it’s possible to ever get over a loss like this.

    I will always remember how wonderful it was to love him when he wasn’t angry.

    I can do all the necessary practical stuff I need to do for ending our relationship. Like finding another job. Another place to live. Making sure my partner’s professional life and finances won’t be needlessly disrupted by my departure. All of it.

    What I don’t know how to do is let go of him. In my heart. Surrender. Give up. Just let him go.

    I know I will lose a large part of whatever it is we mean by “hope” when I leave.

    I never expected to love anyone as much as I love him, so I don’t know how to stop loving him, or forget what I feel for him, or just let it slip away forever.

    1. This… This is it. I’ve tried for ten years but I can’t deal with this behavior anymore. Or, maybe I can, I am a strong woman and have figured out what is going on with him, but we have a child and she is scared now at age 6. She realizes he has an “anger sickness that keeps coming back” and she has asked to be safe at grandma’s house. I have to leave to protect her, because he won’t admit his rage and actions. It is wrong for a child to experience a father who acts like this… Nice for a few weeks then raging and hateful out of nowhere, for no reason. I don’t care about your bpd boohoo poor me mental illness reasons anymore once I saw the scared and damaged look in our offspring’s eyes with your latest episode. I have no choice it seems but to leave for the sake of the normal mental health of my innocent loving daughter. Good luck and get help. Heartbreaking.

  37. Hi Long Good-Bye,

    Wow – what a touching story. It’s clear that you gave the relationship everything you could, despite the vile BPD rages. You must be a very tolerant, patient person: most people can’t deal with 1 or 2, let alone multiple rages every couple of months.

    BPD is sort of like a case of Dr. Jekyll or Mr. Hide. Sometimes you’re with the most amazing person in the world, sometimes you’re with the most vitriolic, hateful person in the world.

    Given that you’ve be so understanding for so long, I think it’s good that you’ve decided to move on. It’s not your job to put up with endless rages: it’s really his job to seek treatment and improve.

    As someone with BPD, that’s hard for me to say, because we like to blame others – but he [your partner] will realize that out-of-control emotions and hurtful words cost him the most valuable person in his life.

  38. Wow the OP hit the nail on the head. I am going through a slow simmer that has been building for weeks now and try as I might the constant ruminating over my recent rejection won’t go away, it’s just increasing. I am not in a relationship and I live alone so I am glad i won’t explode on anyone close to me. I don’t know how to get rid of it and the only thing that I can think to fix it is hurting myself or drinking. I’ll try to write a letter and see if that helps.

  39. I am dating someone for a little less than a year who I believe had BPD. He rages. He just started therapy. He is currently is “raging”. I am looking for someway to help him come down from his episodes. Is there anything I can do? How long do these things last? He was triggered off on Saturday, it is now Tuesday.

    Also, can therapy “cure” this? What can I expect for any long term outcome and how long might this take for him to stop being controlling and stop raging?

    I love him dearly as do my kids. I would like him to remain in our lives but do fear that triggers will never end. I am hoping they do and that with help, he can stop triggering.

    Are there any forums where spouses can get help handling rages?

    To all people that suffer from this disorder. I have read that getting in touch with childhood pains and fears can cure this. What are your thoughts? Have you tried this consistently? Does it help?

  40. I have BPD. I live with it every day, or i feel like dying because of it..most days. I have have been married for four years, the man i live with has got so much good in him. He has so many good qualities and yet when i loose my temper which has been starting to happen more and more often and i forget every positive feeling i have towards him. now i am at a loss of what to do. I am an honors student in college, i get along well with friends and workmates adn when i come home i spill my coffee or rip my clothes in rage i bang on the wall and i kick my feet as if i was a two year old. and i actually do have a two year old daughter who i love and adore and i am a great mom(everybody sees that)i laugh with her, play with her, and take the best possible care of her, but with my spouse i loose it, and it never happens when he is not around. I scare my daughter when i act outrages, and i dont want her to see her mother who she knows as a good person, because i have no bpd symptoms when i am just with her, all of a sudden act like a child younger than herself. i am embarrassed adn ashamed and yet i loose control so quickly that i act rediculous and then for the next day i will still be ultra sensitve, negative, sad, and depressed now because i feel so guilty about my behavior.
    i have been in therapy for the last 8 years of my life (imm only in my low 20s. and i do think it is true that we do not change. well maybe i would, if i changed my whole life around, but i can never get a new mother or father or siblings and so my life will remain pretty much the same.
    how sad to think that a person who is caring, intelligent and creative all of a sudden becomes a helpless baby. i believe it is possible to change that, but i havent had too much success with that.
    i dont think you should go into a relationship with a borderline if you dont know enough about the person and their behaviors and willingnes to change before hand.
    i got my man trapped in a horrible place, where i cause him pain, even though i really really really do not want to.

  41. This is the first time I’ve written on a forum for BPD, I’m trying to come to terms with things more at the moment.
    I change from feeling worthless, to deserving of love to being completely detached and not really knowing what I want or deserve. I have just come out of a hectic relationship, it has taken a long time for me to realise at any point that getting myself in a mess was my own doing and not everyone else who was close to me. This isn’t always something I embrace though, but at the moment I am. 6 years of fundamentally the same cycle of mistakes. Sometimes I feel like it’s my fault and I can’t cope with the guilt, sometimes I feel determined and motivated that I will rise above the situation that my parents and or partner and others had gotten me into. Sometimes I just don’t care about things, I don’t want to be around anyone, I don’t want anyone close to me, if someone tries to hug me to comfort me I feel smothered. That’s often when I feel most suicidal.
    Feeling hurt is awful but it is something to focus on, someone to be angry at. Feeling guilt is unbearable but again a pain that can be focused on and there is an outlet for it – yes harmful – whether it’s hurting myself or venting anger. Feeling confused and detached and alone is the worst feeling, nothing to look forward to, nobody else to blame for your mistakes, seeing no potential in yourself because you keep making the same mistakes and you don’t know why.
    Everything is an extreme, whether it’s kept inside or expressed outwardly, I guess that’s why everything has to be balanced out with a numb-ness. I’ve never felt intimately close to someone whilst having sex or anything sexual. I am female so people tend to assume I’m some sort of alien if they find this out, but this is the most basic way of me getting across the point. I crave to be close to someone, to share that intimacy, but I never feel it, I almost feel like I’m being sold-short. If you tell people this that you’re in a relationship with then they tend to take this personally, I told my ex and had it thrown back in my face on so many occasions. Do other people feel the same? Can that feeling change to feel close to someone? Is it me or is it just that I haven’t found the right person?

  42. There are some very bitter Non’s out there. I understand that many of you have had terrible experiences with someone who had (or possibly had) BPD. You’re certainly entitled to your feelings and your anger; just remember that your anger stems from an individual and not everyone who is diagnosed with BPD.

    Obviously no one expects the Non to do all the work. That’s ridiculous. Both partners need to be willing to work together and work on themselves. It doesn’t make sense for one person to put in all the effort while the other person does nothing. I also think its dead wrong to tell those with BPD that they are heartless, satanic or cruel beyond repair. People with BPD can and have been treated with success. Does that mean they’ll be cured of hyper-sensitivity or rages? Maybe not, but they can develop skills to make these intense emotions far more manageable.

    I still experience intense emotions and Depression. Yet I no longer self-injure or engage in risky behavior. I don’t destroy property (which isn’t something I did a lot of to start with) and I don’t hurt mean insults or pick nasty fights with friends and loved one. (Such occurrences were extremely rare regardless; I’ve always been a “quiet” borderline.”)

    For the Non’s who are not related to the BPD’ers they were involved with; YOU TOO HAVE A PROBLEM. Perhaps you have co-dependency issues or a martyr complex. Maybe you liked the drama or how BPD’er made you feel. Whatever it is, you made the CHOICE to stay with someone who abused you. Please acknowledge that you might possibly be mentally ill in your own way. Look at yourself and see where you went wrong that you wasted so much of your time with someone you loathe.

    1. Wow, that sounds like classic borderline person who throws back everything . Own it. Realize that YOU have a problem. If you didnt. this forum wouldnt even be here.

  43. Arrrrgh!! My daughter has decided she doesn’t need her meds, She says im the nutty one- i’m the one that needs meds. I’m starting to think she is right! She will make me mad at this rate. 2 weeks ago she drank a bottle of calpol, she took from the locked box where I store all the meds. The keys for this box are well hidden, she prised it open with a knife.I can’t keep paracetamol pills in the house- she eats them like sweeties if she is in a down mood. She is super impulsive!! When she realised the calpol wasnt enough, she locked herself in the bathroom and drank some bleach. The resulting call to 999 included me telling the operator she used a knife to open the box etc etc. An ambulace was dispatched….along with 3 police cars and a van. 8 officers spilled their way into my house. Boots thumping, radios blaring. Followed quickly by the paramedics from the aforementioned ambulance.

    They debated whether or not to take her to A&E. She has just turned 16, and this was her first trip to an adult hospital. Through my tears I explained this was the 12th time in 2 years she had done this kind of thing. They decided she might get some help a litter faster going to A&E.

    I’m well versed in this self-harm scenario- its an auto pilot drill for me.Call hospital, grab the ready packed (but hidden) bag of clothes etc, drive 20 mins to peadiatric unit, hand over to docs. I thought i’de be able to keep her safe if I hid the pills. This night it was like a punch in the face, a reality shock, that I can’t. I felt like all my sleepless nights and knots of stress were fruitless. I wasn’t crying because of what she did, but i now know I can’t keep her safe from herself and her own mind. It terrifies me, and breaks my heart.

    She has had 2 good days of high, but reasoably happy mood. And now the crash. I’m so so tired. Nothing changes much. It’s like sitting on a scarey rollercoaster, the safety bar comes down and you’re trapped. Stuck on a ride you can’t get off!

    I’m going to have a busy few days with her. Its like a well thumbed script. I can just about timetable it to the hour. I can’t hide everything she can harm with- so im going to have to wish for a miracle to pass over her.

    I know everyone living with or dealing with BPD has their own struggles, and I know there is really nothing anyone can do to help except listen.

    I will manage- I always do. I’m just here to vent and rant safely. To clear my head for the storm brewing!

    Thank you for listening x

  44. I suffer with BPD as well and my anger outbursts have been a major problem for a little while now. They seem to be getting worse. I do the same thing that other spoke of here; I am great one minute, telling my boyfriend how it’s going to be a great day and there’s nothing to worry about, then BAM! Something happens, something so small, and within a split second I am in this fit of rage. I become like a whole other person. I am uncontrollable, even for myself and it drives me insane. I still have this little piece inside my mind while I’m going through that, that’s like watching myself and saying “What are you doing!?” But I just can’t stop. It’s too scary to stop…I don’t want to be vulnerable and it’s like I feel this overwhelming need to protect myself with the anger. Then, like others, I hurt myself because I hate myself so much for being that way, feeling that way, and for hurting others so badly.

  45. Hi Angel,
    Your story is so familiar to me, but from the other side. It’s so hard to watch someone with BPD suffer, yet its so hard not to want to walk away! I hope you have alot of support in helping you deal with the problems BPD throws at you.

    Good luck :0)

  46. So, I ask myself, “What is it about me that stays in a relationship where I am emotionally abused. No need for details, we all know the stories being married to BPD. Is it hope that I stay? I heard one time that “hope kills.” Is it possible that the wonderful woman that I feel in love with isn’t real either? Is the good side too good and not realistic, just as the rages aren’t real? I’ve also learned that denial is not just pretending, it is the inability to accept life because by doing so the pain will be too much to handle. Maybe it is not only the BPD that live in denial, it is their partners also.
    So I ask myself, “What is it about me that puts up with the abuse? Especially after 20 years of “recovery” from alcoholism and ACOA issues. One thing that I do know is that my recovery comes first and I have begun to see the long slow process of pretending the rages don’t hurt jeopardize my emotional sobriety, which is one step closer to the thinking of “screw it” and that is a dangerous place for me.

  47. You have BPD and this entire blog is about making an excuse for yourself instead of working on yourself and controlling your infantile *[redacted]* 9/21/2011, hateful, inappropriate comment.

  48. In response to your comment, BPDpeoplesuck, you either have been a involved for someone with this illness- it sure is hard to understand and tolerate, or your completly ignorant to how mental health issues affect sufferers. Whilst I agree that the patient with a personality disorder must make the effort to help themselves, there is NO quick fix, NO medicines to take and there are few words, certainly not ”please kill youself” that can remedy the situation.

    If you dont like it, cant deal with it, nor wish to educate youself on the matter- you should consider avoising reading or posting about it?


    BPD does indeed ”suck” for everyone involved with it!

  49. Um I dont ever say hurtful things I just freak out and cry and hurt myself and wack my head on everything like im possesed..and I cant.control myself, at those tiime I wuld do anything to die but I always hold back, lucky, Is that a borderline rage?

  50. Also.. My partner is never helpful like he dusnt care he gets angry.at me.wen im sad n says.hurtful things n when I have my rage he ignores me and I really need.help, but then he starts yelling at me calling me hurtful names…. He says I pretend, put ot all on for attention. And that drives me insane…

  51. I just love the comments from people who cannot handle being with a BPD person. If you are that weak, maybe you should just take yourself out of the dating pool altogether. Weed out the weak, so to speak. Leave the strong people for the rest of us please. Nobody likes a dud for a partner.

  52. Hi Anon,
    You’re partner probably cant’t fathom whats going on during this kind of ‘rage’. It’s very difficult to support a person with BPD. It is ‘attention seeking’ but a kind of attention that needs help and support. It can be controlled, but it will take alot of work on your part and your partner needs to learn why it happens, if you are to stay together.

    I have dealt with several mental health disorders, but a personality disorder if by far the most complex to comprehend.

    Your doctor should be able to refer you onto a Mental Health team who can support you and help you learn ways to control your behaviours.

    And to Kazza- BPD sufferers need support in dealing with their condition. I doubt isolating anyone is a positive thing to do. Although I think if a relationship is to become long term, BPD should be discussed early on. The difficulty arises because two of the main symptoms of BPD are an inability to regulate emotions and an intense fear of being alone.

    I would find it difficult to live with a BPD partner, but I do live with my BPD child. Its a roller coaster- tho never a dull moment!

    Unfortunatly, there are no medications to cure this condition. But there are dilect and diversion therapies to help.

    Critisizing, nagging and negative input is most definatly the worst way to approach BPD


  53. Here is a letter I received from my brother in law….pete. His son moved out at 15 dropped out of HS and is living with his girslfriend. Pete my Brother in law doesnt even know he has BPD and has raged at us for the lst 23 years. His brother,my husband is finished and cant take ll of the lies….he keeps sending us threatening emails….all we did was send $130 dollars so his son could go tot he prom and occasional clothes….this is just the last of the emails…I find it threatening and this person colects guns although he is out of prison for interrrupting a 911 call when he was raging. what do we do….

    Danny ,holly I WILL SEE YOU THIS SUMMER REGARDIND my son, P.S. I have heard what has gone on with you 2 and OUR SON.. PS Mom & Dad told me to tell you NOT TO COME TO THERE HOUSE (EVER) , they do not want to see you. Mom asked me to E mail you because her computer does not work , she said she tried. Mom has asked me to change her will she does not want anything she owns to go to you and your BITCH wife.. Here words. I missed the last 2 attorney appointments, ask Afele.. Dan what happened to you?? Dan Who do you think you are ???? holly Who do you think you are??? Do you really think I am a bad dad?? Do you think that Darlene is a bad mom, Do you ever think that my son did these things to him self and do you think that you 2 are smarter that the 4 counslers that we took Dallas to or the 2 hospitals he was admitted to our the 4 shirrefs that took my son away in handcuffs.. Dan you do not have the surrpot of the people you think you did, we have not changed but you have for the worst. KEEP COUNTING YOUR MONEY, THAT IS ALL YOU GOT Dan I am with Tommy and Abel on a weekly bases , so quit thinking that you mean shit ,Dan, they know what is going on all the time.. You have no right with what you are doing to us all, go far far away PLEASE, HOLLY FUCK OFF BITCH.. I PRAY I NEVER EVER SEE YOU AGIN IN THIS LIFE TIME.. David ,me and you are in trouble.. Stay away from my son , NOBODY THAT YOU LOVE AGREES WITH WHAT YOU ARE DOING Dan your mother wants to leave her home and go away because you are coming to town. That is what I told her I have wanted to do for the last 10 years that you moved to our town.


  54. I have to walk on eggshells. Everything I do and say is twisted and I’m the bad guy. I’m blamed for everything that is wrong. It’s so bad that my apartment is broken into. I stop communicating, but family is forever. Things settle down for awhile and counseling is sought, but then the raging starts again. Should I be afraid? I’m a little afraid! Advice?

  55. I just ended a year and a half relationship with my BPD boyfriend. I did not know he was BPD until about a year in and I slowly put the puzzle together on my own. He was and still is an exceptional person but I could not tolerate the emotional blow-outs and degrading statements that followed. I also was very turned off by his need for constant affirmation and regressive behavior which I later learned was kind of a weird way that BPDs try to secure love. The bottom-line with him was that he was wonderful, exceptionally talented, intelligent and handsome but I realized that the deeper issue was this was a man that could not take care of himself and tried on many occasions to shift that responsibility to me.

    I broke it off in hopes that placing limitations on the behavior I would accept would drive to seek help. I discussed with him many times the characteristics of BPD and asked that he consider it. He did listen and is now in therapy and being treated for BPD.

    For those of you who have been hurt I feel your pain. Honestly, it sucks and just does not make sense to us why they do what they do. Why our love just seems to be washed away with the next emotional spat. Why our dedication is never enough. Why they seem to be searching for something to fill the void and become disillusioned with us when we can’t provide it. Why…? Because it’s an illness that hurts not just us but them as well. It hurts many of us because we see the person underneath and want them to thrive. It hurts because we are not living in a reciprocal relationship. It hurts because it does not make sense to us.

    Invest time and understanding and determine what is right for you. Do not stay if you are causing damage to yourself and/or the BPD in your life. We all have limitations don’t ignore your feelings. It maybe the most loving thing you can do for the BPD in your life.

  56. Only now do I recognize that my ex has BPD. Spending years with someone with this disease gives you a skewed view of others who are “targeting” your BPD spouse until you become the source of their unhappiness because they have run out of people to blame for their problems. If you recognize that you have BPD and are getting help, I commend you. However, the majority only believe that everyone else is the problem. Getting out has made me see how wonderful life is without the constant anger and depression. If it is negatively affecting your quality of life and happiness… run for the hills. Life is about joy, not anger.

  57. The most frustrating part is ignorant doctors. Yesterday during a grill out someone moved a big heavy whiskey bottle I had kept to fill with shells on top of my fridge. I didn’t know and jerked the door open as usual. It came down with force on my head. I didn’t think much of it other than the headache and bad mood it caused. This morning I couldn’t see out of my right eye, panic and hostility started building and building up. Then my father shows up to once again tell me how stupid it was to have it on the fridge (yeah I’m awarebof that now can he tell it to whoever put it up there), then my husband who is supposed to care that I’m depending on to drive me to the doctor decides to work on a motor with my dad in ky garage despite my repeatitive 3 hours of saying my head and eye hurts I need to go to the doctor. Finally I snapped and started screaming shut up shut up shut the f*** up. At that dad finally left and I got a long loud lecture on my ride go the doctors. My head throbbing, making him aware of this a few hundred times and instead of the decency of quite or concern of head trauma I got lectured because they are tired of my outburst. By this point if moods could emit temperature the paint would have melted off the walls around me. The nurse finally called my name after 20 minutes in which my husband had gone to the truck to whine go my dad about having to amuse me by taking me go the doctor. The nurse was nice asked what brought me there and I told her. Confirmed I still take adhd meds, bipolar meds, anything else? Yeah alieve d cause my nose was stuffed ans pressure was horrible I was told doctor would be in shortly. During this time I see a threat on a button and take my hostility out on it trying to contain my anger and place it only at the cause of it. The button came off. Great now I’m showing cleavage. Oh I forgot to mention I habe 2 visible tattoos and a tiny nose stud. The doctor finally walked in and didn’t even pick up the chart when he eyeballed my tat let out a sigh of discuss and said if I was there for pain pills he couldn’t help me. At this point I keep my voice as calm as I can and let him know drugs aren’t my concern I’m in pain but want the problem fixed so it won’t require drugs. From across the room he flashed his light across one eye the one that is all red where the white is supposed to be and told me I was high and he couldn’t help me if I was hurt go to the e.r. or he would call the police. Yup I lost it right then and there DEMANDED that he call the police and get me a dam cup and for him to expect me to shove it up his ass when it shows I take nothing that doesn’t have my name on the bottle, I have no clue how to fake a blood filled eyeball or goose egg on my head and he had best find a new career cause he was too stupid to be a doctor and couldn’t diagnose someone from across the room without looking at their chart even if he is delusional enough to think he knows everything. Well the nurse who actually knows my case history and works with him enough to know him pulled him out of the room and checked my eye for debris. She wrote up an order for mri and told him to sign it because if not and I do have a concision or internal bleeding and decide to sue him she will feel obligates to testify that he declined ordering a test that could save my life. As of right now, I still. Can’t see, arm has gone numb and ear is ringing 6 hours later and I’m still waiting for my husband and dad to decide if they are ever taking me to the hospital over my fabricated injury that is visible from a distance because at 37 years of age I can’t be trusted with any sense to let anyone other than them drive the car I paid for to take me to the hospital for an mri that might make them have to admit they were wrong and I really did have a half gallon bottle of rum fall off the fridge onto my head without breaking or causing me to blackout. Great I have blood where tears usually come out. Then again maybe they are hoping I die and it won’t be their fault since they didn’t cause the injury, afterall my rage is obviously the problem and reason everyone hates me and assumes that a tattoo and tantrum means I am a dopehead despite countless tests every month and every time I go to the doctor that prove I’m not.

  58. I would like to say that I got here because I was searching for some explaination,as to why I’m not happy,and can’t seem to have a normal life.I’ve had my share of problems as I am sure all of you have.My life started out fairly normal.As a child I lived in a fairly nice house,normal parents that cared for my sisters and I.I started to see a few things changing there with some arguing,and drinking on my fathers part.Then came the divorce,and we had to move around alot because our mom was trying to raise us by herself with no child support.She started going out to bars with friends,I guess to forget about everything she was going through.That’s where she met the new man in our lives.Thats when my life became a living hell.I went through years of emotional,verbal,and some physical abuse,as well as my mom.They are still married,and he has changed alot.I said all that to lead up to the fact that I have always been the peacekeeper in our family trying to smooth out all the problems so everyone would get along,but here lately I’m not doing so well at keeping myself under control.I’ve had alot going on financially,and with my Marine son who seems to have forgotten who his family is,and the lack of respect,and problems he is bringing into our family.With that being said I’ve been flying off the handle so to speak,and threatning to hurt people bad,if they don’t leave me alone.I have holes in my walls where I have gotten so angry I have to punch something until the pain of feeling rejected,and the feeling of wanting some form of satisfaction subsides enough for me to control myself.When I am that angry I feel like I could turn a truck over with hardly any effort.I am 6′ tall and weigh about 200.The last time I got that angry,I put my fist all the way through my bedroom wall and didn’t realize I had cut my arm until my wife told me I was bleeding.I scared my wife and daughter,because of my rage,although I have never even thought about hurting any of my family when I am like that.I don’t believe in a man hitting a woman or child.I have just been trying to figure out why I blow up the way I do.I dont want to be put on some drug to make me feel detached from all feeling and emotion,but I need to address the problem headon.Thanks David

  59. Hi David,

    It sounds like you’re having a bit of a rough time. But things can get better!

    Firstly, if you haven’t had a diagnosis of BPD you should see your doctor, and ask for a psychiatric assessment (UK)If you have already been diagnosed, you can ask for a referral for Dialect Behavioural Therapy. In my experience, medicines make little difference to BPD. Although, some people do benefit from anti-depressant pills during the early stages of diagnosis.

    Learning coping techniques, to deal with the rapid ups and downs of the mood swings will help you gain better control over your emotions. Being able to talk and express how you feel will help you internalise the condition.

    I want to add here I am not medically trained, my experience of dealing with BPD comes from living with the stresses and drama it brings, through family members.

    Good Luck, you can survive this! :0)

  60. Dang. The fact that this is STILL getting comments…we really need an active BPD recovery community. Why are there so few of those? Some of us are trying the hardest we can to recover, and support from people who understand would be amazing. Seems like all the other disorders have carved out their recovery niches on the internet, why haven’t we?

  61. I have been married to a BPD for over 20 years. First event happened about 2 weeks after the marriage. I am a soldier, I have been through combat in Afghanistan and other areas. I am a blackbelt in karate and I can tell you, facing combat is less frightening than a BPD you love in rage. You cannot say anything or do anything during the rage except protect yourself. The rage can last up to days.

    If you attempt to leave, it can get very nasty. If you stay within striking range, beware you may may get hit or even hurt. Establish a rule that if you are physically assaulted, immediately leave and then go file a police report without the BPD knowing that is where you are going.

    I have been through extensive therapy to ensure I was not nuts and to learn to NEVER argue with a BPD, which is just about impossible. Even if you sit stone quiet, it can escalate. Understand, you cannot control it or change, nor can they.

    The comparison to the Satanic, evil scenario written by others above is true and, if the event was videotaped, you would say Hollywood could never replicate it. It is more than humiliating; it is extremely emotionally painful.

    You have to make a choice to either stay in the relationship and try to help the person the best you can or get out. If you stay in, realize that you are in for one hell of a ride and I mean hell. Ensure you are not staying in it because you are co-dependent. If co-dependent, seriously get help first and then make a decision.

    I have lost many things in my life for this person I love and have had to learn to accept the losses. Trust me, they are huge and the BPD will always find a way for you to be blamed. You cannot win this argument either. They are masters of remembered hurts, whether slight or major.

    Trust me, I hate the pain endured by the BPD rages. It hurts to the core, but when my BPD becomes the way they do, I turn them and their behavoir over to the Lord and tell him he has to deal with it because I have done my level best. This works for me. I hope it will for any of you that go through this hell.

  62. Dear Admin,

    I am confused. In post #37 from yourself, you state that “As a general reminder, any hateful, racist, sexist, etc. comments WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.”

    However, after I read post #49 from “BPDPeoplesuck”, which states “You have BPD and this entire blog is about making an excuse for yourself instead of working on yourself and controlling your infantile bullshit. Please kill yourself.”

    Personally, I feel that this comment is the very definition of a hateful comment. This person is advocating for BPD suferers to kill themselves!

    As a sufferer from BPD who feels more remorse and self-hate for every single emotional outburst I have taken out on others than anyone will ever understand, and has worked extremely hard on her recovery for 9 years, and has had previous suicide attempts, I do not understand why such a hateful, destructive comment has been allowed to stay on this forum.

    A comment like this, viewed by a deeply suffering individual, could potentially trigger them to harm themselves.

    If you could please explain to me how this comment is anything BUT hurtful, I would appreciate that.

    As a side note, the name “BPDPeoplesuck” is hurtful in and of itself.

    Thank-you for your time

  63. Hello Kate,

    You make some very good points. Originally, I wrote a discrimination clause for comments that were globally prejudicial and bigoted. For example, someone espousing white supremacy, hate towards a certain ethnic group, etc.

    I read that comment you are referring to and tried to balance the poster’s right to express himself/herself against this blog’s stated regulations against hateful remarks. At the time, I thought it would be better to err on the side of free expression opposed to censorship.

    In the wake of recent news regarding cyber bullying and teen suicide (Visit CNN.com and do a cursory search) I have now decided to edit that comment.

    To be sure, I believe in freedom of expression; but I also believe in constructive thoughts that are not hurtful towards others. As a sufferer of BPD myself, sometimes even the slightest common can throw me into a depression for hours or even days. There are better ways to phrase a comment meant to challenge those with BPD to get better aside from asking them to take their own lives.

  64. Wow..these comments are just so sad! I feel for the BPD sufferers as well as the spouses and families. This truly is a disorder that affects more than the diagnosed. I have a few questions, I beleive that my husband may have BPD. He already has ADHD. In the last year he has raged about 5 times and has seriously damaged himself and the house. What I want to know is this….do BPD really black out during these rages? Why do BPD seem to want sympathy afterward or desire to “show off” their hurts (broken bones from rages etc), and most importantly can BPD rages that have always been controlled around the children eventually turn to include them? Presently they only happen towards me (which means he has some element of control) and not the kids. He is actually an amazing Dad to them but I’m scared for the life they may lead…I’m not able to shelter them from this anymore. Can anyone advise me? I know I need to leave to protect my kids…what do you believe is my reality with a BPD life and how does BPD affect him when it comes to working out custody and access? Can this hinder him? Can I request supervised visits? Please help. Not sure what this all means…my kids can not suffer.

  65. There are so many heartbreaking posts here. I am a BPD who just flew into a rage yesterday with someone whom I have feelings for. I was hopeful for a relationship in the future, but I have little hope now. I want to apologize so bad, but I feel so defeated. I fought off the insecurity for so long and controlled the fear, hurt, and anger. I just could take it anymore and snapped. I am just so disgusted in myself. I feel so defeated. I think he understands it was the BPD and not me. I want him to love me. I want him to understand. I hate who I am when the rage takes over. It isn’t me. I deeply regret what I do or say when it happens. To those of you that think that people with BPD don’t feel remorse or regret, you are so wrong.

    For those of you in relationships with BPDs and you want to try and make it work, I suggest looking at http://www.anythingtostopthepain.com. As a BPD I have found this to be one of the least hurtful websites. There is so much hate and misunderstanding regarding BPD. Unfortunately even many mental health professionals hold highly stigmatized views of people with BPD. The owner of this website has a wife and daughter with BPD. As someone with BPD I find it very comforting that someone who loves the BPDs in their life has taken the time to truly love, understand, and have compassion. It gives me a little hope. From the reviews I have read by people who have used the techniques on this website it seems to help nons who want to stay in the relationship and not just run like many advise. I am sorry if I sound like an advertisement, I am just so sick of people who advise to run and the lack of compassion and real hope for both the non and BPD in a relationship. It is just so so sad.

  66. I have BPD and it’s a bitch, I must say for myself and others at times. I have found the steps in recovery (AA)(NA etc) have helped very much with the anger issues. However, there are always gonna be times when I blow my cork. This is a hard fact to accept. Sometimes when I feel myself going over the top, I get alone to regroup and meditate on all those things I have learned over the years to make my life better and others lives better. What bothers me is someone that continues to poke at me like a rabied dog or snake and then become dumbfounded when I blow. It’s like DON’t ANTAGONIZE THE MENTALLY ILL!!!! Personally, I fair better being single but am always hoping I can find someone who understands me like looking at a child that never got to throw a temper tantrum, ever!! It also helps for people I am taking my rage out on to intelligently put me in my place, Or just get away from me. Believe me, the constant headaches of trying to remain calm is hard and we should be prayed for alot. Thank you.

  67. The best thing to do for too many of these BPD rages with guys is to literally beat the fucking shit out of them. It works, too.

  68. I live with a BPD female. As my name says, I’m really sick of it. I always thought that anyone with PTSD should GET TREATMENT. Whatever the cause (abuse, combat related, unspecified), bless your heart , I sympathize. But DONT use this as an excuse to be a pain in the ass to everyone else that you will ever meet for the rest of your life. You have no right to do that. As for my spouse, if I even DARED mention BPD and that she should get professional help, she would make me regret it for the rest of my life. We’re both in our upper 50’s. I can’t afford to go off on my own, divide my entire worth in half and survive unless I live in a cardboard box.
    BTW, she has had trouble with all her jobs, with conflicts with co-workers OR her boss and has been demoted more than once, so I know it’s not just my imagination. Can you see the anger in some of these posts? Those who live with BPD sufferers, in my opinion suffer MORE than the “sufferers”. I don’t necessarily agree with some comments (kill yourself, etc.) but I understand the source of the anger.

  69. So many of the stories is me suffering from the words that my ex said to me during his rages. None of them sweet and nice. He broke up with me…..why do some bpd have the ability to shut off emotion so quickly and then cycle back and be the most loving? This is hard for me to understand because my feelings for him have remained the same but his emotion is up, down and side ways.

  70. Makes sense now the screaming and crying fits when in grade school. I wouldn’t talk or assault just scream and cry in a fit of uncontrollabe rage and just like today be scared of it spiralling out control. My mom dad and aunt always described me as emotionally needy when little. Mom died when 14 dad left me 2 yrs later haven’t spoken w aunt since younger. Am 32 now.

  71. Of course now I’m older I still scream and cry hurtling my words in attempt to be heard (but still not able to communicate needs fears or feelings). Another thing since youth the terrible feeling of just wanting to disapear to die to get away from your thoughts and from everything ppl done to you and equally what stupid things you’ve done to hurt others. It’s a double edged sword, just perfect to finish you off.

  72. As a newly diagnosed bpd I am being told that managing my emotions are key and that is what I am aiming to do. All I know is how to hurt myself and how to hurt others. Believe me I’ve wanted help to stop the hurting. thought I could help myself if I wanted to. I would try so hard for awhile not wanting to throw fit w significant other but sooner or later it comes out, and then afterwards I feel so bad like a peice of shit. I am currently being told psychotherapy helps bpd. I want to “act” normal and be happy w self and back then bf now dh for 9 yrs. Back when we dated and lived together he bore the brunt of my tangents. My sis wanted me to leave him back then thinking he was the source of my behavior no not me. Took me yrs to realize I was the one being the destructive one which this realization toned down fits but now and then it explodes and even gets me wondering what’s crawled up my ass..any other person would’ve rightly left me. I’m one of the lucky few.

  73. So we have two kids now I gotta control myself. A three yr old and one yr old. Can’t take negative emotions out on kids. I am going to get the help I need to help myself and (hopefully) learn how to handle emotions when under stress. Some ppl might judge me but consider some ppl are compelled to alcohol as some ppl are compelled to destroy themselves in other ways.

  74. I have recovered from BPD after 4 straight years of weekly therapy, and I would like to say that this disorder involves some very fundamental errors in viewing the world and other people, which poison any chance of having a life that is anything other than pain. Some of these follows:

    “I am completely helpless and have no control at all over what I feel or how I react to things. Therefore, the world must always change to suit me, and not the other way around”

    “It is other people’s responsibility to regulate my emotions for me. They should do this on request and if they fail to do this, they are bad for not giving me what I need.”

    “I am OWED something from other people because I have a hard life. My needs are more important than anyone else’s because of my hard life, and I am entitled to mistreat others without the natural resulting consequences because I am ill, was abused, etc. Others are required to not only endure this poor treatment, but are also required to be endlessly compassionate and supportive in response. If they do not do this, they are horrible people.”

    “Everyone at all times (including strangers) should always be thinking about my needs, what I am going through, and how they can do what is sensitive and kind to me.”
    ” I have the right punish someone when they do something I don’t like, because they should know that the purpose of their existence is to make me happy, be sure to not offend me, abandon me, etc.”

    “I am allowed to treat people with disrespect and a lack of empathy for their own experience as long as I feel they are bad people and deserve it. They, however, are not ever allowed to disrespect me in any way even if disrespect wasn’t intended, but I just feel like it was.”
    “If anyone ever disagrees with my perception of the world they are ‘invalidating’ me. Therefore, they must always agree that I am right whenever I make an accusation, even when they truly don’t think I am”

    Basically, all these kinds of beliefs are actually very narcissistic in nature, and make a person come across to others as a spoiled, selfish, entitled little prince or princess who thinks they are always right, and that others exist just to take care of them and be everything they want. If these errors are not corrected, life will continue to be misery. What I realize now is that BPD basically turns you into a person who cannot empathize with the primary, important people your life (even if you can empathize with others), because you don’t realize they are separate people with their own needs and perceptions. Look into Object Relations Theory. Because you are developmentally still in a toddler stage, you believe others are extensions of yourself, and that they exist to serve you and your emotional needs, even if this is not consciously known by you. This is exactly how I felt for years, and also how I treated my poor therapist, until it finally got to the point where I started to realize the error of my ways and have a realistic picture of how terrible I was treating others. In the end it was a combination of my extreme effort and willingness to endure sometimes severe emotional pain, combined with the saintlike patience and love of my therapist which allowed me to mentally grow out of this egocentric worldview of a young child and into the adult world. Hardcore psychodynamically oriented therapy is what I would recommend to anyone who is dealing with BPD. It literally saved my life.

  75. I have been diagnosed with complex PTSD, which shares some features with BPD. I have not been diagnosed with BPD but I get a lot out of reading BPD forums.

    I have to say that those who are intolerant of BPD probably are speaking out of tremendous hurt and ignorance of what generally leads to the disease.

    Remember: an explanation of the etiology (cause) of a disease is not an EXCUSE for bad behavior. I personally don’t make excuses. I do, however, think that anyone who has zero tolerance for the trauma of others is themselves ill. I cannot tell you how many people roll their eyes and snicker when I talk about what has caused my symptoms, simply because they refuse to accept science and neurobiology.

    That’s fine. People laughed when told the earth was flat.

  76. i am a single parent of two. i didn’t realise i had bpd until after i had my children. I have not been diagnosed but i know. I am scared my kids will be taken if anyone finds out and there doesn’t seem to be anyone where i come from that specialises in treating this damn disorder..and i know how important it is to be treated by someone who truly understands bpd. I hate having no sense of self. How can i teach my children to love and trust themselves when i don’t know how to do it myself. I don’t want to damage them and don’t want them to have the same issues i have…it should be simple but i am really confused as to when my behaviour is normal parent behaviour or harmful bpd parent acting out… i don’t want them to be scared of me, i don’t want them to hate me, but i fear one day they will…

    i want them to be happy…i want to be a good mum, i love them but am i changing who they are by my inability to know how to deal with emotions. How do other people keep this burden from their kids? I hate you bpd, stay away from my kids, damn you.

  77. I recently was diagnosed with BPD at age 40 after a nervous breakdown I had. My whole life I had suffered from depression and anxiety w/ trauma. At around 35 I was diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder which also is a personality disorder as well but after the nervous breakdown they felt may I need to get retested. My psycharist brought in the correct specialist and the results finally fit the experiences I’ve had though out my life.

    Thats the good news, but finding out the personality disorder I had was really BPD was good for me but not good for the people around me. The therapist fills alot of my tauntums are provoked but it will help to learn more different types of coping skills then the ones I’m using. It has helped for me but the people I’m around aren’t in therapy with me so they still keep crossing that line with me. It’s so frustrating emotionally because it’s my family and friends only. Once strangers understand I have an anger problem they completely act differently.

  78. Part 2:

    What I mean people act differently, I mean age appropiately….not like there in any type of danger or they fear me. They start to be more open about my actions that upset or bothered by them and respectly ask me to change….either I can or can’t. Not I won’t or will.

    Thats so what’s fustrating about having BPD it’s like people want to blame the disorder for inapproiate behavior (BPD’S and non BPD people). In so many cases they feel I’m suppose to except the mistreatment or hurtful actions toward me. I’m not trying to say I’m easy to get along with no person with BPD is but I don’t treat people unfairly. I’m adoped and STILL in contact with my adoptive family raised my son as a single parent on disability (physical not phych) all my friend I’ve had my whole life or over 20 yrs. I have and never have had a drug or acohol problems. The only time theres any contact with police is in relation to my relatives stupid choices and when I was in a domestic violence shelter and arrested because of a stupid choice a friend did when I was in my early 20’s (I have no criminal record).

    My therapist is trying to teach me why I’m being treated unfairly and ways and steps to make my interpersonal relationships better. But, they have asked my son to not live with me upon his 18th birthday. They don’t want me to be alone with certain relatives and friend (emotional abuse)and to prevent any anger outburts. To be fair it takes two to argue and I still feel I’m just as responsible as my family and friends

    I almost forgot, I also suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (never been in the army,raped,war)Body Dysmophic Disorder and Severe Depression w/ Suicide Ideation. I’ve only had one hospilation ever and that was around six months before my 40th birthday. The doctors also told me I suffer from memory loss from so mluch emotional abuse and trauma. I block my problems out so much thats the effect over the years.

    Please, feel free to email me would appreciately any advice….THANKS FOR YOUR POST IN ADVANCE AND FOR TAKING THE TIME TO READ MY POST….AND GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!!

  79. For as long as i can remember ive always been “hot headed” as me mom would say but of course my episodes were far from jusr being hot headed but my family didnt really by into mental disorders it wasnt till i was on my own and in a relationship that i began to try and seek help but a lifetime of hearing theres nothing wrong with you! you choose to punches holes in the wall you choose to cut yourself JUST DONT DO IT!! made me apprehensive to seek profesinol help im 21 now and have a son whos a year and a half this morning after getting into a arguement with my wife about a appointment i tried to check the time on my smart phone when the screen didnt light up after the second try i began to feel it bubbling up inside outloud i said to the phone if you dnt start working.. and i lost it i threw the phone against the wall which cracked the screen and made it light up idk why but that set me over the i grabbed a hammer and pounded the phone then went off the deep end screaming at my wife an son i dont want to be like this anymore so i began researching disorders when i found your website and your bullet point are far to eerily similar to my own experinces in life how do i go about getting diagnosed and the help i need

  80. Me and my girlfriend keep on arguing and she keeps wanting to break up with me then get to gether again (she has bpd BTW) and she can’t understand why I don’t just walk away. What reason am I supposed to give her if I really do want to be with her.

    I dissagree with any one that says that it is the bpd persons falt it is just as much non-bpds as bpds. I know I can’t get angry like I do at other people, she takes everything so personaly. and is so controlling, and has mannic out bursts. But what I say and do don’t help.

    How do I help her? How do I stop her hurting, physically and mentally. (btw we together for just over 1 1/2 years) I know she wants to stay with me but some times she “just can’t take it any more” what do I do. I am asking someone in a simular position, or with bpd.

    Is it best for her it I stay of go. No matter the effect it has on Me .

  81. Thank you For your post Jo, that is how I feel. One my biggest fears is that my children grow up hating me. This thought compelled me to thoughts of suicide believing my kids would be better off w out me. But that is my bipolar/ borderline talking and I’ve got to believe in something better than that.

  82. I would like to add, as a bpd myself, every bpd as well as closest family member should have some type of psycotherapy. Regular therapy won’t work. Dbt is proven effective (dialectical behavior therapy) which I am currently doing now.
    As a bpd I think I want my husband to get some therapy not just to learn how to deal w me but so he can heal from the damage I have caused him.
    Most bpd’s won’t admit to wanting their significant other to seek help because they do not want the shrink to tell them that the relationship is unhealthy and needs to end.

  83. Does the BPD person ever realize what they are accusing, saying, threatening, etc to another person..ie. a spouse? do they ever realize any of the verbal, physical pain they are causing or do they justify it all? Is it a temporary tunnel vision or do they see it for what it truly is after a spell of mood changes, and degrading another person?

  84. Heather, I can only answer for myself, but when I’m in a rage I usually am not aware of the other people’s pain simply because I am so occupied with my own. All my attention is on trying to address my own overwhelming pain, not on thinking about others. Then afterward I realize what I have done and how unfair and bizarre it was. On occasions when I *am* aware of another person’s feelings, I will usually hold back my comments or at least make more of an effort to do so. But it is as if other people temporarily cease to be (in my mind, not in reality) real people and become only a potential source of hurt and injury or of comfort and reassurance. Of course, I want the comfort, but I end up getting the hurt since I provoke them with my terrible behavior.

    So in short, no, I’m not really aware of the other person as a person during the episode. But at other times, I am, and am sorry for how I treated them.

  85. I just wanted to add this informative link which details a recent study with brain imaging that proves that bpd’s have disruptions in activity in areas of the brain that regulate emotions. I also feel more sorry for those people who have posted hateful things about bpd’s on this board. I would rather be bpd and have some capacity for compassion than not have it and have no compassion for others.


  86. I’d love to hear “I’m sorry”, just once, with real meaning (via change) from my husband.

    I have cPTSD, and he resisted even a secondary dx from a therapist. He insisted I seek treatment for childhood trauma before we married. After three years of my own therapy (and two years of his individual “because I’m married to someone with PTSD”) it’s getting worse.

    he excuses his childhood abusers and lives in denial.
    I must be held accountable for every look, tone of voice, the way I walk, how the kids are raised, the groceries bought..but him? none. NO criticism can come his way.
    It’s always me and MY disorder, never his.

    Road rage, temper tantrums, exiting the car after starting an argument, throwing furniture out of the house, yet no one else sees Mr. Hyde, only me.

    The lack of intimacy, the obvious fear of it, the escape through working…he will do anything he can to not have to actually feel any feelings, even if means ruining our marriage.

    he cons therapists. He shuts me out of knowing what he does in therapy…I don’t usually get to hear the general things like “it was difficult tonight” or “it was great”, maybe once a year I hear where he’s at. He refuses to get a full assessment, choosing instead (even when not raging) to focus on my diagnosis and how it is the cause of all our problems. Never mind that I use mindfulness, tapping and mediation daily. Never mind that I remove me and the kids from the home when he rages.

    Sex when he wants it (infrequently), but signs of affairs…

    He has every single hallmark symptom of BPD except self-harming. We’re both sober, and I’m tired of living this way and preparing to leave, if he doesn’t spend all our money before I do.

    I’m ready to walk away from six years of what began (of course) as an amazing relationship because I value my sanity more than he values his recovery. frankly, I doubt that there is any recovery from BPD. If you’re willing to live a shallow life on the surface filled with rage every few weeks, then go for it and live with a BPD who refuses treatment or diagnosis. But I won’t. I’m worth more than this.

    A note to those who have BPD and do seek help and follow through on treatment: thank you. I hope that one day the example you all are setting will become the rule for all sufferers, and that seeking help is no longer marginalized.

  87. I was diagnosed with bpd almost 10 years ago. I’ve been in an out of therapy and on every anti-psychotic,anti-depressant, mood stabilizer and anti-anxiety medication that one could dream up. I struggle with my anger every day. I can’t hold a job or keep a stable relationship with my types of outbursts. I want to get better but nothing helps.I’m left feeling quilty and ashamed when I run off the ones I love but I can’t stop! Seeing that other people understand and knowing thatim not alone is a good feeling. It gives me hope..but as we all know there is no cure..and that’s okay! One’s that care don’t know and ones that know don’t care. We’re survivors/warriors and I’m tired of feeling ashamed about the things I can’t control. I am who I am! I’m angry! Just wish more people understood that we too live laugh and love and are capable of great things. Don’t judge me by my illness..judge me as a human being…..

  88. Just wondering if this blog is still active as I would dearly welcome some advice and opinion re a friend who I suspect has bpd . Thanks

  89. I am a male who believes strongly I have bpd, as everything in my life is represented perfectly by the info on bpd I’ve read online during the past several weeks. Im 25, yet never even heard about borderline personality disorder up until I googled “my extreme emotions are destroying my life” the other week. I always before claimed that I was probably bipolar, but my symptoms didn’t quite match. Now things make too much sense, after discovering bpd forums and blogs.

    Anyways, I keep trying to discuss my feelings in relation to what I’ve read about bpd with my girlfriend, seemingly endlessly, and she can’t handle it. She looks bored, angry, and uninterested when I talk about the most intimate scary feelings, and reacts with statements that make me feel she’s annoyed or exhausted.

    I’m trying to warn her now when I feel I’m being triggered, but it backfired last night. After a hike and a lot of me discussing bpd and my sick thoughts, we went to a grocery store. I was embarrassed when we entered the store because she was talking about how “there is no such thing as normal” in what I felt was too loud of a voice. I said “shhhh” and begged in a whisper that she stops talking so loud. She turned to me sternly and said “are you embarrassed?” and I nodded feeling understood. She immediately looked deep into my eyes, and said “screw you!”. I had to walk right out of the store in silence to avoid an extreme public rage in the produce section. I stood in shock by her car, and decided I couldn’t walk home without my keys, but decided I am done with her forever.

    She drove me home and I left without talking, drove to a bar and started to have beer and even met a pretty cool potential friend. I danced and joked with the eccentric babbling homeless woman in front of the bar, and felt a million times more love and connection with her than seems possible with the love of my life, who I have decided I can’t speak to ever again. I came home afterwords, and punched several holes through the wall above the kitchen sink, and decided it was too soft and gave the fridge a couple pounds too. I then hid in the bathroom sobbing uncontrollably like I was dying, while my girlfriend said “babe?” over and over outside the door. When she went back to bed, I came out and started preparing marijuana. Before I could smoke and calm down, she shows back up in the living room and I started to black out maybe. The next thing I know I’m pinning her down screaming “GO THE FUCK BACK TO BED YOU FUCKING PIECE OF SHIT!!!” like a demon, over and over. I chased her out of the room pushing and slammed a door so hard it broke off the hinges. I cried and slept on the carpet alone, paranoid cops were coming to take me away, like when I raged on my parents when I was 18, causing them to kick me out and file protection orders. Today, it hurts to step on a heel, and both sets of nuckles are swollen. I can’t stand to look at the door or the wall, and I feel like I have to never speak with her again to show her what she’s done.

    Suicide is a daily thought, yet I don’t ever want to really do it, it just seems like an escape. My parents reasoning for my actions have ALWAYS been “it’s the drugs. He’s doing drugs again”. Honestly, I have been using drugs or alcohol constantly since I was pretty much a preteen, but it’s a way to dull the constant bored empty feeling I have. I can’t understand how anyone else gets through each day sober, the natural boredom I feel drives me insane. What am I supposed to be doing to fill each moment, if it’s not extreme or exciting? Life is too much, and too boring.

    To top it all off, my sexuality is confused and I’m forcing myself to try to meet a guy to see if i’m bisexual. My soul feels feminine, or neutral, and I wish I could somehow be a sexy girl or I feel jealous of gay people. College never happened, and I haven’t worked in almost a year. I spent all the money I manically saved for years and could lose my car because after several interviews and rejections I am convinced I can’t work a job ever again. I’m avoiding phone calls from the employment agency that is helping me job search, and I feel like I hate the people as well.

    This is the strangest downward spiral, I’m screwing over everything I have on purpose and threatening myself with suicide. I never volunteered to live this live, I am being forced to participate like an animal. I can’t just snap out of it and become “GOOD”, because my selfish pride and anger won’t let me. Maybe I am not as in control over myself as I thought, or I’m in so much control that I am purposely steering my ship off the edge of the world. Do I just want people to see me so low down, that I’m ruining my life for the potential attention and pity it might bring, or do I crave the freedom and abandon of being homeless (my greatest fear by the way)?

    1. Hi Bpdmaybe,

      I urge you to take time away from work, your relationship, and your family (if possible) to visit a doctor and get some initial mental health first-aid.

      I say this immediately out of concern for your well-being: your girlfriend would be well within her rights to press charges for assault. Jail is not a place to improve one’s condition. It only makes things worse.

      Instead, please allow yourself up to 2 weeks to be evaluated by a competent doctor and perhaps visit an inpatient treatment facility. I’ve been twice and although it feels embarrassing, it did prevent me from going over the cliff. I was self abusive and violent and desperately needed help. In patient care slowed all these emotions down and allowed me to reenter society more productively.

      Things do get better even though you’re in extreme pain right now. A therapist or doctor is a non-judgmental third party who YOU are paying to help you live better. Most of my doctor visits are productive: we talk about the past, present, future, and anything that troubles me. I’ve also yelled at my doctor for an hour straight and spent entire sessions in tears. That’s what they are there for.

      Step away from your environment and please get help. You probably feel trapped inside your own head and feel there is no way out. There is if you put yourself first and put everything (and everyone else) aside. Right now they are causing you too much stress to be of any help.

      Good luck.

  90. Thanks, it’s great advice, because hearing it makes me feel like I can snap out of this to avoid the embarassment of becoming some helpless patient. I will simply get a job, avoid drugs, and not flip out from now on. The image you painted in my head of being evaluated for weeks has scared me straight. I know I can’t psychologically take that kind of an experience. Bad trip for me. I’m gonna become priest-like (better yet monk-like) and start behaving productively so I can enjoy myself, regardless of the job I get. I’m just gonna do it, because everyone has to work. Reading back tonight all that I wrote yesterday makes me feel ashamed for even letting myself get to this point. It all doesn’t seem so glamorous and tortured and dramatic anymore, I can tell I’m choosing to make an ass out of myself and it’s gotten old. Can’t you turn a downward spiral right side up? Or is this really just some sort of idealized borderline delusion to escape the shame that will come from seeking help. Also, I’m scared to know what inpatient care costs without insurance, as I’ve said, I blew through an ungodly amount of savings recently and have a car note to pay. Wouldn’t it be more crucial to survival to get working and just shape up best I can and avoid trouble somehow? If I lost my car from sitting in a hospital because I refused to stop acting like a child, I would feel WAY more depression and regret and hopelessness.

    1. Hi Bpdmaybe,

      I understand your desire to work and be productive. Bills need to be paid and they don’t go away. That’s a fact of life.

      My only concern with a mental “reboot” (computer analogy) is that you’ll start fresh with the same programming running your thoughts. Things will go well for a while until you face another difficult situation, and your emotions will unravel again.

      People with BPD can be like chameleons: we’ll put up different acts depending on the environment we’re in. This type of activity is putting the cart in front of the horse. It is better to interact with the world from the inside out, not the outside in. This is challenging for people with BPD because we feel extremely hollow inside.

      Think of some counseling as “timeout” opposed to completely removing yourself from the world. You might not need inpatient care. I only suggested that because violent outbursts and suicidal gestures are things people around you will take VERY seriously. They might feel better if you demonstrate you are getting help.

      People with BPD are prone to “all or nothing” thinking, and I struggle with this every waking moment. Realize there is a difference between a brief hospital stay and weekly therapy compared to being completely dependent on a hospital for the rest of your life. Statistically, the vast majority of people with BPD do NOT need permanent inpatient care.

      There is room in the middle to work, have a relationship, and be productive. You’re only adding an hour or two a week to discuss your concerns with a doctor. That’s a financial commitment but it is also concrete evidence to others in your life that you are trying to get better. Many times family members assume you don’t care about yourself until you show them otherwise.

      I believe you can get some introductory treatment and return to work so that your car payments can be made.

      Finally, realize that you’re not at fault for BPD (or whatever diagnosis your doctor determines). Developing BPD comes from environmental and physical factors, much like someone prone to having high cholesterol gets heart problems after eating meat for many years. They didn’t know what was going on until medical help intervened and suggested a better way forward.

      Your parents saying “it’s the drugs” is a form of denial. At the moment, they don’t understand you (or have failed to understand you for years). I suffered under the same parental ignorance. They share blame to the extent that they should have been more supportive about helping you earlier in life, but as an adult it is now your responsibility to get better.

  91. This is a very informative Forum. I myself recently was involved in the roller-coaster ride with a non-diagnosed BPD. I have spent the last 2 months researching her behavior and although she is seeing a therapist, I feel that the therapist she is visiting is reluctant to let her know what is ”really” going on.

    For my own sanity I had to end the relationship. She was a lovely person, but the continuation of conversations that were over shadowing our relationship regarding what where perceived to be ”my issues” and then the theatrical behavior was sadly having a very negative impact on me

    It was the Bain of our existence. Irrational jealousy was the largest part of the dilemma, which there was absolutely no cause for as i spent almost all of my available time with her. Where ever we were, if an attractive person (woman) was nearby, her antenna were raised and I was always under her very watchful eye.

    IT was unfortunate, because we had something that I thought was going to work, but only after 6 months with her, I found myself sitting in her therapist’s office, and said to myself, what am I doing here?

    I have been in LONG term relationships with good solid people and never experiences the emotional outbursts and vivid recollections of everywhere we went and who was in the area and what i did, and I got to feel that I just could not enjoy my time with her any longer.

    I started doing some significant research on the behavioral actions that she was displaying, and was amazed at the amount of information on the internet that pertains to this sad behavioral malady.

    Although I am sympathetic to the person with BPD, I personally cannot be with someone that ridicules me and acts out when we are in public places and for me, the theme of enjoying one’s companionship should add value to one’s life.

    I pray that her therapist is honest with her, as she MUST know what she is displaying as behavioral characteristics, and I can only hope that she is able to assist this woman in her recovery.

    I know there were ”past” issues that may have been attributed to her behavior, but I was the ”new kid on the block” so to speak and don’t have time for the pain.

  92. During a rage does anyone else experience loss of vision? I shut my eyes closed for a few seconds and bright lights were flashing. Then when I opened my eyes I was unable to see anything for about 20-30 seconds. Also felt very paranoid afterwards like someone did that to me or I was possessed. Any similar bpd experiences?

    1. I liken Borderline rages to detonating a bomb. Nothing makes sense for several hours (even several days) later.

      In the aftermath, I’ve notice I feel numb. There is a high pitch noise in my ears. I have trouble orienting myself to my immediate surroundings. Violent and angry thoughts spew from my conscious, eventually subsiding.

      I might cry, scream, or break something. I actually feel better being left alone. I had a rage over the phone once (crazy 🙂 ) and was grateful I was alone at home to cool off. I went to bed and took a nap and allowed the negative energy to dissipate.

      I don’t know if BPD rages approach permanent psychosis, but certainly temporary loss of reality isn’t uncommon.

  93. ‘…I don’t condone or make excuses for my BPD rages. In the days, months, and years following acute outbursts, I often feel guilt and shame. At the same time, I hope the people around me get past the anger and look between the lines for the pain I am feeling. If they can admit that they see the pain, and not the anger at its face value, they have made an enormous leap that is both laudable and extremely beneficial for me as a sufferer of BPD…’

    You only *often* feel guilt and shame for out-of-control raging, when you should *always* feel guilt and shame for this kind of behavior? Otherwise, you will continue to pretend that some of it was justified, which it was not.

    Anger is often justified, raging is never justified and the *only* way to not be consumed by guilt and shame for unacceptable behavior is to apologize, make amends, and not repeat the same behavior.

    This is true for *everyone*, not just Borderlines.

    And while it might be ‘extremely beneficial’ to the BPD to have others look past their raging, it is not beneficial to other people who take the Borderline’s behavior at face value, as they should.

    Borderlines: It is up to you to tell people what you are feeling, not up to others to try to guess what you *really* mean or what you are *really* feeling. There are no special rules for you where you get to communicate your distress by raging out of control, while the rest of us speak up and say we feel hurt, or upset, or angry and, if necessary, we walk away until we feel a bit calmer. (This does not work at your job, as they are not your ‘family’ and if you feel out of control, you have to quickly say you feel ill and leave!)

    It is really that simple. Explain how you feel *before* your feelings escalate out of control, because that is one of the most important parts of being an adult and to not know how to do this makes you seem like a pre-verbal child, a two year old in an adult’s body, which is both creepy and scary.

    Try speaking up right away about how you are feeling right of the bat. For certain it has to be better than how you are going about your life right now, which making other people *guess* what the problem is, which will continue to leave you unhappy, misunderstood, and alone.

  94. ‘…. I hate who I am when the rage takes over. It isn’t me…’

    What people who have BPD must understand is that it *is* you. You have to accept this to ever get better, as we all have to accept our own behavior. As long as you tell yourself that ‘it wasn’t really you’ who did or said those things, you will make excuses and not find out way out of the hell you are in.

    Additionally, no one who cannot control their temper, BPD or non-BPD, should have children, as they inevitably will take it out on them or, at best, their children will witness the rages and suffer terrible damage.

    If a person already has children, then they should get themselves to a therapist and get to work on fixing their behavior, no excuses!

    Raging is abusive to adults and terrifying to children, so think of what is best for them, not yourself!

  95. I raged at my boyfriend last night. I said some mean fucking things to him, I wanted him to push him so far away from me. I moved to this small town for college which i have already lost interest in, and now i find myself living somewhere where i have no privacy and with a cultish sort of feeling. i just am so confused, and lost, and indifferent, and how can i even begin to explain all this to my bf., ugh. its so overwhelming,, everything feels like a huge emotional paradox.

  96. when im in a rage, the first thing i think is i gotta get out of here, this room, this house, this city sometimes i start packing all of my clothes, i texted my first bf who i havent seen in 8 years if he needed a roomate (he lives across the country) i also walk to the busstop in the middle of the night with my bags packed, hitch hike in mid feb across country, trying to escape from myself, it helps, usually just the though calms me down somewhat. Super impulsive in rages has frustrating consequences a lot of the time.

  97. My ex seems to get extremely angry whenever I’m cordial, nice, caring, etc to him at times.

    When he seems in an OK place, he is generous, encouraging, loving, smiling, caring, etc with me. I return the same and sometimes he continues the same back to me. But this doesn’t last long. A day, a week, a month later….he’s raging at me at of nowhere saying that I’m trying to manipulate and control him with my kindness. He says I’m taking advantage of his kindness and toying with his emotions. It is frustrating because most times he’s the one to take the lead in this kindness cycle and I follow suit.

    I feel like it’s OK for HIM to be nice to ME but when I try to be nice to HIM….he begins to feel disgust. Then when I keep to myself because I feel confused and hurt over his reactions, he comes around with his sad puppy face and it feels like he wants me to give him attention.

    I just don’t get it. Nothing is ever enough. Something is too much. Even being nice and kind to each other gets all dramatic and he ends up tangenting on multiple issues when he’s devalues my kindness. He throws everything including the kitchen sink my way. ….none of which have anything to do with being respectful and kind to each other. It’s normally a heated spew of his fears, guilt, shame, and anger onto me.

    I have addressed the issue many times over months about respect. I started to stand up for myself. When I did this, it made things worse. Our last conversation was the worse I’ve seen and heard from him. I went on Wednesday to being wonderful and him caring and laughing…. to Thursday me being the devils spawn in his eyes….he acted like he was disgusted by me….literally eight hours later. When I asked him what was wrong, he used verbiage that implied that I have been badgering and harassing him. He claims he told me to leave him alone. He said he is tired of worrying what mood I’m gonna be in, he’s tired of me playing with his emotions, he’s tired of me taking advantage of his kindness, he said I was in denial.

    I was shocked and felt betrayed. All those things he accused me of above….were almost verbatim what I had addressed to HIM about how I felt regarding HIM and how he was behaving. It was like he took all the above and decided he didnt like being owner of it and projects it back onto me. When I tried to point this out, he changed the subject. He said that I tell him HI and I ask how his weekend was and ask how everything is doing. He said I want him back and Im in denial and I’m trying to control him when I say hi or ask how he’s doing. It just didn’t make sense. None of his words make sense…..it’s all a messed up fusion fail of words.

    He went into a frenzy and said that I don’t respect him. This I found contradictory because a few days prior I asked him if he felt I treated him badly or if I was mean or disrespectful to him at any time? My ex said no, not at all. He said that I was respectful to him and treated him good. Then I asked him, “why can’t you do the same for me?”. He didn’t answer the question. He just blamed me for making it hard for him to be my friend and that my problem was that I’m too positive and nice.

    Sometimes when he says hurtful things I feel he’d jealous of my resilience, communication skills, and interpersonal relationship dealings. It’s weird because I feel in my heart he may have feelings for me and cares for me as he says. But it’s like he’s afraid of admitting it or doesn’t know how to go about sustaining the feeling without having paranoia about XYZ.

    Why does kindness from others and being kind to others raise anger????

    1. Hi Renee,

      I just responded to someone who responded to you 🙂 below, but here are my thoughts as a male BPD.

      As much as I would hate to lose my partner because of my bad behavior, that’s exactly what should happen.

      Taking your statements at face value, I would leave the relationship immediately, unless you have children or others involved that might suffer from the sudden separation. Children complicate matters only for the short run. Long run, you should still leave.

      As a male BPD, I would hate to lose a partner. But, I’ve experienced enough of myself and other BPDs to know that we go too far. Take care of yourself first. Retreat to loving family and friends while you break it off.

  98. My sister and I grew up in exactly the same violent, degrading and abusive environment. I saw the path I was on and turned in desperation to God. Years of inner healing, therapy, prayer, confession,failure,and hard work have changed me. I have lots of room for growth, but I don’t pretend that if others understand me I can continue to be abusive. If I am abusive, I deserve to face the consequences of my abusive behavior. If that leaves me rejected and alone, tough. I have to suck it up and learn from my mistakes,and grow up.

    My sister curses me, insults me, accuses me, spits in my face, refuses to let me speak, threatens me, tells me everyone thinks of me the same hateful way she does, attacks my character, gets physical with me, demands to be consulted and informed on my every action, and on and on and on. This last time, she was unable to find a dish. She accused me of hiding or breaking and hiding it and would not look in my belongings so that I could prove my innocence. That would have proven her wrong. The next morning I found the dish in the dishwasher. It’s been four days. My nervous system is shot, I’m hurt, I’m scared, I’m angry, my focus has been pulled away from what I need to be doing which might jeopardize my future and my goals. She is as happy as a clam.

    I don’t really care that she has PTSD. So do I! But just because I have suffered does not give me a free pass to abuse other people. I refuse to let myself have the luxury of expecting others’ to give me permission to act this way. It’s evil to do to others what has been done to you and expect them to just take it and get over it. It is permission to be the permanent child. This is not just BPD, it’s narcissism. I am done forgiving my sister so she can do this to me again. Her abuse has cost her the love of her sister. She will never see her responsibility here. She is determined to be the demanding infant. No one else counts. I’m done.

    1. Hi,

      You deserve a lot of credit for making the changes necessary to improve. It does take time, hard work, introspection, and creating a thick skin.

      I don’t want to sound pessimistic, but the world is sometimes a mean place. No one on the street cares about what horrible circumstances you came from. Everyone around us unfamiliar with our personal history expects us to be decent, personable human beings and doing everything we can to overcome unfortunate beginnings.

      I don’t think this is fair, but life isn’t particularly fair. I don’t think your sister is beyond redemption. She needs serious help, perhaps a brief hospital stay.

      Don’t become her whipping post. She shouldn’t be taking her anger out on you – her sister – who has moved on and improved. Family relationships are always difficult because you don’t know when to push harder for change and when to realize your efforts are wasted. I would ask a counselor or family therapist about what expectations you should have for the relationship, given your own new life and outlook.

      Most therapists will say “you first” and the other second. Easier said, however it is sage advice. Guide your sister when she is open to advice, but don’t tolerate the negativity. It will only bring you down.

  99. For Renee:

    It breaks my heart to hear your story of suffering. Your final question has pierced my heart and I have to tell you what I think: You are asking a rational question, trying to make sense of your experience, maybe even trying to find a way to make it better. If you could unlock the mystery, you might be able to fix it.

    Here’s what I have finally come to believe: There is no rational answer. This is madness and if you try to apply some kind of rational examination that can help you fix it, it will drive you crazy. I don’t have the added difficulty of being in a romantic relationship with my abuser, that adds a terrifying dimension to the whole issue. You are so vulnerable and you think if you could find the key you could save this relationship, this person.

    You can’t, Renee. You didn’t break it, you can’t fix it. Please take a serious look at the reasons you are in this relationship. What has attracted you to this? Is there something in you that is attracted to being abused for some reason? If you need to, find a really good therapist who can help you face yourself. You will begin to find strength and healing for your own heart and you will begin to rebuild your confidence and joy.

    I wish you every blessing and success. God bless you.

    1. I ultimately agree. BPD is a self-help issue in the long run. Friends and family can only be so tolerant and accommodating. Eventually they run out of patience and emotional energy.

      If Renee is in the relationship to fix the Borderline, he or she is wasting their time (I’ve met both male and female Renees before).

      Don’t fall in love with someone to make them better. Fall in love because you both make each other happy as you are, and are supportive of each other’s weaknesses given each person makes a sincere effort to get better.

  100. The Long Good-Bye: ‘…But I will have to live with regret for however long it may last, which may be forever. I don’t know that it’s possible to ever get over a loss like this…’

    You don’t get over it, any more than you get over grieving for someone you loved who died. You do get better, but you will never be the same and that’s just the way it is.

    You can love someone with all of your heart and never want to see or speak to them again.

    What BPDs do is to test anyone who loves them over and over again until they destroy the relationship for good. They do this because they are so fearful that they will be abandoned that they just want to get it over with. Afterwards, they tell themselves that they knew the person didn’t really love them, so they were right all along not to really trust them. They do not realize they are doing this on a conscious level because there is something wrong with their thinking.

    Even though many of them are very bright, their thinking in relationships is like that of an animal, in that under stress only their reptilian brain is in control, the fight or flight impulse. Their higher brain functions stop working entirely and you are dealing with an out of control animal, not a rational human being.

    It is very sad and very upsetting, but only they can fix themselves. They have much more respect for romantic partners who leave them as soon as they behave badly than they do for anyone who tries to work things out. The more their partner tries to be understanding, the more the BPD feels contempt for them, as they think that anyone who would put up with their terrible behavior is not deserving of respect.

    In a way, they are right.

  101. This may seem odd that after being in a relationship for over 17 years with 3 children I am beginning to wonder if my partners behaviour is caused by having BPD.
    Throughout the years my partner has flown into rages that have got worse over the years. It can be from anything to my baby standing in the way of the tv to not liking an opinion that differs from his own.
    The last rage he had was 4 days ago when he flew into a rage and said that I make him feel like he wants to stab and kill me. He has said much worse over the years but this time even though he threatens to leave all the time, this time he has gone to stay with his Mother and needs a break from all of us. He has gone on a really stressful week of appts and I am left to deal with them, the house and children alone. There is no remorse on his part. I had an accident and scalded my hand badly. Not once has he asked if I am ok and only left more orders for me to do. He has said nothing has changed and he will be back in a few days but has no desire to speak to me or the children while he has gone.
    I am not trying to air my personal problems. I just want to know if this is typical behaviour.
    I have always been supportive but this last episode has left me and our children feeling abandoned and unloved. As much as I love my partner I am torn as to whether I should give up on us and give him a chance to be around people that do not make him as mad as I do. Feeling completely heartbroken.

    1. When your partner is more balanced and open to suggestions, say that he needs to see a therapist immediately. The homicidal thoughts and violence in front of children is very troubling. 50 years ago people would say “my partner just has a hot temper”. That doesn’t fly now, and there’s good reason for it.

      I wouldn’t get divorce papers out, or even give him an ultimatum (ie. “you get help or we leave”). Try to convince him to go to individual therapy on his own. Ask his friends and family to help persuade him. There might be some underlying issues you don’t know about (suffered sexual, physical, or emotional abuse as a child, and doesn’t know how to love a young family in return).

      If he refuses and gets worse, time to move out. YOUR safety and your children’s safety comes first. Don’t wait for a tragedy to make the right decision. He’ll realize he needs help when his rages and behavior no longer have an audience, and more importantly, no longer are acceptable.

  102. I hope you can help. I met this beautiful girl (32 years old) and she has a shop hair salon downstairs where I live. We hit it off, albeit she has tatoos (flower for an abortion, cougar??? and her ex fiances name on her hand). Anyway, first 5 weeks were heaven, I thought where have I been, where has she been? It was perfect. The attention, the ‘love’, the sex etc etc.

    Then is started, she still in touch with her ex, crying about how her clients take so much mental energy, she feels sick, her greatest investment was her implants (am not into that), everything revolved around clothing and admiring Millionaire Housewives or some other crap. You don’t love me, come here, go away, am going out with my friends etc.

    Then the violence started, and mental abuse, breaking things, threats of burning my home, my face etc. An example, came out of a club, I started walking home 4 mins walk, she wanted to take a taxi (no snow, no heals etc)I said no, then her bag cracked my skull open. Another time she tore my ear. I went to work with scratch marks on my hands, they thought I was into S/M. She came home at 5 a.m. pulled me by my gentials out of bed and said she was hungry, and if I did not make her food, she would pee on the floor (note I cleaned, cooked, paid etc) and our arguements escalated when I said you bring nothing to the table but fake breasts and a nasty lazy attitude. Anyway, she pee’ed, I cleaned and that was her way of disrespecting me.

    She also lied alot, kept on bullshitting about how she has a following re fashion, tons of selfies, very active on FB etc.

    Those are the bad times. The good, well that was in the beginning. Sex stopped, it was all about her wanting trips, expensive gifts etc. But I knew she was suffering from BPD (not suicidal though) and HPD. After 6 break ups (I threw her out) it finally ended on Valentine’s Day 2014. Have maintained NC and saw her today downstairs but said nothing, am trying to heal from how she gutted me. How stupid I was to think that I could simply please her, fix her, support her, understand her…sure I got mad, but she would get madder.

    I got her half brother a job (he was a loser) her parents have been married and divoreced mulitple times, kids here and there. Got the mother and her on a better relationship…and now she is????

    Comments, input, advice. Sure am hurt, sure I miss parts of her when she was here, I miss sleeping beside her, taking care of her..BUT she was draining me mentally and physically.

    Oh yes, was on a flight to London, stewardess came by giving cookies, I said I know those cookies and they are great, she said indeed they are…then she came back with a bag of them for me…well, 2 minutes later, my ex BPD/HPD who had her feet in my lap under a blanket kicked me in the face…said I was flirting. And I was not!!!!

    1. Hi Tom,

      I guy I knew once said an interesting thing: “There are three sides to every story: yours, mine, and the truth.”

      He was in a “Vegas” marriage, which meant he was seeing a few girls on the side. This is not to say you’re lying or making things up, it’s more of explanation for why your girlfriend *thinks* her actions are justified.

      Ask yourself the following:

      1. Are you in love with the fantasy, or the reality? (Or, do the good times far outweigh the bad, within the realms of an acceptable level of stress?)
      2. Do you really see yourself with this woman for the long term?

      My guess is you’ll answer “NO” to at least one of the above. In that case, you’ve done all you can. Drop her and move on. I would throw in Narcissistic Personality as a possibility, too.

      It’s not that she is incapable of having relationship. It’s that – at this point in her life – she needs to heal and seek therapy before she can have a healthy relationship with another human being. 10 years down the road, she could be all sorted out and happily married. You might wonder, WTF did I do wrong? Nothing. She’s not ready yet. She needs to get help.

      You’re more than entitled to leave, and by that, cut all ties; no phone calls, emails, texts, jobs for relatives, etc.

  103. Am trying to understand her, am trying to help myself get over her. Am trying to distance myself and heal. But am so hurt, sad etc that such a beautiful person can be so self serving, nasty and when she lied, she would get angry and angrier. I miss her when she was calm, but that could escalte from zero to 100 in minutes…a message on FB, her ex contacting her, etc etc etc.

    So the bottom line, she was an illusion for 15 months, she was only the one month honeymoon phase?!? But would love to know what she is thinking, what she is doing, how she is doing, etc. but am sure fine, am sure she has a new lover or maybe her ex or maybe many. That is sad. But I guess I need to face the facts. I thought I was smarter than this. All my friends told me to run, be careful, she will get pregnant and you will be stuck with the baby as she flirts around and even moves on.

    1. Following up on your second comment: unfortunately beautiful people can be very self serving.

      The easy ones to catch are the physically beautiful, who think everyone should bow when they walk in a room. The more difficult are those who give off traits of selflessness, compassion, and empathy, only to exploit others for their own egos and gratification.

      Some of the most “generous” people – on the outside – can be difficult to live with. If you’re familiar with the American actor Sean Penn (“Milk”, among other big movies), you’ll probably recall he has dedicated the last few years of his life to repairing Haiti after its devastating earthquake. This is a laudable and commendable thing to do.

      His personal life, however, is more checkered: rumors of domestic disputes and fights with former lovers abound.

      The thing that irks me – as a borderline male – would be the constant contact with the Ex. If he’s so wonderful, why not go back? It sounds like this girl needs a cheering section. I would definitely move on immediately.

  104. I guess my questions are:
    Do BPD/HPD ever see what they are doing?
    Do they ever take responsibility?
    Do they ever understand the hurt and decit they are creating?
    Do they have remorse and miss their ex who cared for them and treated them like a princess?
    Do they ever stop lying?
    Do they ever stop portraying themselves as victims?
    Do they ever realize what they are doing?
    Do they ever look back and say OMG?
    Do they ever simply admit and say I owe this person who was good to me the humanity?

    Those are my questions…or is it just one big game of ‘me myself and I’ and forget the good times, the memories, I have a new lover, whom I will destroy in time.

    1. Hi Tom, great questions, so here is my contribution:

      To answer ALL questions: They realize after being in therapy and being dumped several times. They realize after years of work, typically CBT or Dialectical Behavioral Therapy that things they did in the past were not productive.

      I wouldn’t wait for her to get help. She might be a better woman in 10 years, but not right now.

      You are a thoughtful and articulate person. There are many women worthy of your time and affections who will be much less stressful to deal with. Life is to short to be constantly cleaning up train wrecks.

  105. Thanks for the quick replies. That said, she never took responsibility. You asked about if I wanted her in the long term…yes. I did see a future, she wanted a baby, she wanted…wanted…but reality set in…she is not ready. And moreover, she will never be ready, because when I mentioned I suspect you suffer from BPD/HPD she flipped. Why, because she is clueless about it.

    Yes, I was willing and wanting. Hoping for the ‘honeymoon phase’. She said that she would kill my son, albeit, a polite 14 year old who simply does not create drama or is rude…in fact helpful. I hosted a huge crayfish party on my terrace. My son ended up crying and told a good friend whilst he drove him home that he did not like the way she treated ‘his father or her brash way of giving him orders’

    I guess I miss her company when things were good, but I also know now she is emotionally shallow, lacks empathy and has no integrity. Then that begets the question…then why are you so hooked on her? She has had lots of relationships, ever since she was 13/14. I told her I did not want to hear about the people she has been with. Childish, sure. But when will she realize what is going on. No control, spends a ton of money on clothing and make up…so what do I see in her? She made me feel good when things were good, walking beside her…note however, in the beginning she did not want to be seen with me because of her ex…but I stated that that ended over 6 months ago…a flag, but actually it did not, it never did. She liked the loser he is, drugs, drunk, no real job, into dark things, guitarist, wannabe French Foreign Legion, hung out with Bandidos MC gang in Finland…basically a nobody…but she kept the tatoo, and I said, no matter what you will have problems with all men…but she always had an excuse, a lie or a blame.

  106. She will never go to therapy…why because she says there is nothing wrong with her. Plus in Finland, BPD is highly prevelant, but nobody understands cluster B. So they continue the world of destruction until perhaps they meet a person who does NOT give them love or attention. Abuses them, perhaps then only will they keep being interested.

  107. We went on a cruise last year…then every day thereafter she wanted to go to UAE and shop, we went to London…shopping. Never happy. Diamond ring…great for a while, then she wanted a watch…but am not her sugar daddy, plus I have to work. That was wrong too…push and pull, you love me not, you have an affair…all this I noted was projecting and nothing more. Gaslighting, and maybe some Stockholm Syndrome…who knows.

  108. I have never had a problem meeting women, but seldom do I give my heart…and this one really gutted me. If I only knew what to do. But I don’t, so I have say I failed in helping her.

  109. It is all just very sad. She is classic HBD with strong BPD tendancies…that is for sure. Therapy she will never attend. Why? Simple, she does not have to, she is beautiful and men like me line up to take our abuse, spend the money, time, effort simply to be sucked dry…some stay and some end it. I ended it but miss her.

  110. Why should a BPD/HPD change? Why should they when they simply have to look good and talk the talk. Forget about walk the talk. Illusions, dellusional and very arrogant. If there is another women vying for attention or getting it…my ex uBPD/HPD would certainly ensure she was put down or quashed…

    1. No not all. As someone with BPD, I would hate to get dumped. However, as someone actively seeking treatment, I realize the following:

      1. No one can fix me. Anyone who tries to fix me will feel like they were being taken advantage of, or led on. I can only fix myself.

      2. The idea of getting in a relationship to make the other person “better” is common, even within relationships with people who are NOT mentally ill. I don’t think that it is good reason to get involved with someone, unless you are both extremely open about how each partner is getting help. Otherwise, you are wasting your time.

      3. It is up to her to get help. Being attractive and vivacious, she might never get it. Don’t worry about that. It’s wasted energy. You probably want her to get help because it will make you feel better. Again, don’t worry about that.

      4. I, too, have “over committed” to a bad relationship. Basically, it is giving “too much, too soon”. In your case, “too much” to someone unwilling or incapable of giving back.

      I hate to be cynical about love and relationships, but sometimes it is quid pro quo. In other words, you put a little in, see if the other person matches you. If they don’t, wait a while until they do. If they never match you, and you continue to pour your heart and soul into the relationship, you will only end up hurt. You will feel led on. The other person won’t understand your feelings because they had no idea of the emotional commitment you were making.

      I would forget her and move on. So many other women are available it is unbelievable. It’s hard being “single and looking” because most people prefer to be in a relationship. Take your choice: unhappily coupled or happily single. At least single you are in control and can choose to whom, when, and what amount of emotion you commit.

  111. Am sorry about all my machine gun rants…but they are all actually factual. I have blamed myself over and over. And wish I could fast forward 10 years after her DBT…but that is not the case.

    I just miss her, when she was good…she was great. We had fun, mutual understanding etc…sometimes she was a bully, but that was fine, I did not have always be in charge, let myself relax a bit…but that too was taken away with her lies, her mental and probably physical cheating on me. This is something I have never done and would never do to someone. When confronted the arguement ended up that she side tracked me, and I ended up feeling bad…could not have an honest discussion. Is this normal. Putting your own needs on the side, small but still needs.

    It was always about her, how she felt, how she thought etc etc and never about us…unless she wanted something, then the us was a big player.

  112. Yes, it is time to walk, failed but walk away and watch as she continues her path of lies, knee jerk reactions, abuse, and destruction. Sad!!! A friend said to me, Tom, if she got pregnant, she would be on that sofa 24/7 expecting you to deliver whatever at her beckon call. Then the birth would have been painful, your fault, and you would be walking down the street by yourself and she would A) leave you with another man B) Be out with her friends C) Ensure you pay monthly since you are nothing for her but an ATM.

    All true perhaps, predicting the future. She would be there when the baby slept, took selfies and how cute etc.

    An example, her half brother could not handle taking care of their biological mother’s dog (some tiny breed)…I came home, she was saying shhhh, the dog is asleep on my stomach…and I am hungry (note, nothing how was your day etc.)…I asked if the dog had been out…she said, look how cute, shut up, make dinner…on the carpet 3 turds and she did even pick them up…so again clean up the mess, bring the carpet to the cleaners and take the dog out. Her question: Honey why are you in a bad mood, why is there a problem, what is for dinner, am starving. Next morning at 6.30 out with the dog as she slept until noon when her first hair appointment would arrive at 1300…me in the car driving 50 kms to work…go figure why I was pissed off.

  113. Thank you…you hit it on the nail, unhappy together or happy single. Appreciate your patience, am suffering on this one way street, hurts that I feel for this and hoped…but thank you for your understanding, this I truly respect. Tom

  114. I insist, she must be able to look at her past, her present and her future. She must be able to say I miss Tom, his attention, his cooking, his cleaning, his taking care everything worked, his understanding, generosity, giving me security, calming me regarding planes etc etc…there must be something that an uBPD/HPD has…something. Not that all BPD are the same, or to the maximum extent…but human nature, some basics.

    1. I would recommend reading a book called “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me”, available on Amazon and most booksellers. It talks about relationships with Borderlines. The title explains the phenomena in 6 words. This would be my summation: [for the borderline] a profound fear of abandonment, realized by desperate emotional acts to preserve a relationship, often to the detriment of the relationship and discouragement of the partner.

      I would prepare yourself for the possibility she might *never* acknowledge the good you gave her, at least not immediately, and *perhaps* later in an unconventional way.

      For example, 10 years from now, after you’ve moved on and are busy with life and other people, you might get a letter in the mail…

      “Dear Tom, [details about relationship] I am have been in treatment and realized that I was very cruel to you. I acted selfishly and was a drama queen about everything. I believe I have [BPD, HPD, NPD, whatever PD] and am in treatment. I have learned that my behavior was not acceptable. I wish I could take it all back.

      When I was a little girl, I was [abused, neglected, bullied, etc – which is a high statistical likelihood for women with BPD]. While those things don’t excuse my adult behavior, I was dealt a bad hand and became damaged goods until I realized I needed help.

      I am making amends. I hope this letter finds you well. Sincerely, [whoever].”

      The letter, verbal apology, or chance meeting might be another attempt on her part to suck you back in, but take it in stride. Accept the apology at face value. Don’t brag about your wonderful new wife/life or children, just thank her, wish her the best, and move on.

      Ignore any subsequent communications, especially if they come as “let’s be friends again”, or “let’s hookup, I’m in town”. That indicates she isn’t fully treated yet. If she was fully treated, she would understand your boundaries and right to be happy without her.

  115. Many thanks for this, I fully accept moving on with regrets however we have recycled this relationship 6 times so far. And if I got a letter like that, I probably would ignore responding accordingly. Even now I probably would, simply because she probably is bad mouthing me to a point of no return. Anyway, thanks for letting me in on this…having tried to have a functional relationship with a dysfunctional person who is undiagnosed and probably will continue this path, simply because she does not have to change. br Tom

  116. Hi, please advise me how to act. Am usually cool and calm, as said she has her shop downstairs. I feel terrible not saying hi or anything, but am afraid she will suck me in for another recycle. Or she (probably more true) is with another lover. So how do I act, wish I did not see her but that is a fact. No, not an option to move. So I cannot move around freely, it is mostly in the evening when I get home that I see her, or she is standing outside smoking. I simply walk by as if nothing. And I do not want to start any blame games or finger pointing. Any advice?

    1. Hi Tom, your proximity to her workplace makes things complicated in the short run. Since moving is out of the question, here’s what I would advise:

      1. Assess her “situation”. If she is with another lover, she will no doubt become preoccupied with him and slowly move towards “his schedule” to be accommodating. If she is single and still thinks she has a chance with you, be careful.

      2. Assess your situation. Make a decision – no matter how much it pains you – that is is over and done with, permanently. Remind yourself each day that it is time to move on.

      3. In day-to-day activities, acknowledge her presence as an acquaintance. Passing in the hallway, say a neutral “Hello”. Stuck in the elevator, another neutral “Hello” and play with your phone. Temporarily avoid her if you can, but also realize you have right to go about your day unmolested and not bothered with her schedule.

      4. Invite male friends over in the evenings. She might be less prone to approach you in person (or throwing a fit) if you are around others who don’t threaten her personally, but would remember if she made a scene. I would not bring a female romantic partner around right away. That could be problematic.

      5. Create social positive social opportunities in the evenings that can get you away from her shop, while not making you feel like a prison of war. Go the gym. Have a beer with the guys (if you are NOT an alcoholic). Visit a family member. Go for a walk (mall walks are fine where there are few parks). You might bump into someone new that you really like.

      6. IGNORE all sexual or manipulative advances, personal, by mail, or electronically (Facebook, Twitter, etc). As tempting as it can be to reignite an old candle, know the experience will produce more baggage.

      7. Take short vacations when possible to get out of town. Again, not avoiding her, but doing something nice for yourself that is positive.

      8. Take any threats of violence or suicide on her part seriously. Call the police if she becomes violent. Call the ambulance if she becomes suicidal. This can’t be your problem anymore. No one would blame you for doing the right thing IF these extreme circumstances arise.

      9. Find a recovery meeting for difficult breakups, preferably with other guys, where you can vocalize your feelings and get feedback. If you are in a big city, there might be a breakup group that specializes in people partnered with BPD, HPD, or NPD characteristics.

      10. You first in everything until you are ready to commit to someone else.

  117. What would happen if she saw me walking with another woman? I know for sure she has someone else, but not sure how happy she is for now or what stage of the honeymoon phase. Re friends, well believe they will avoid me after a while since I have probably am obssessing over her. It is easy to say move on. Harder to do.

    I also understand that ‘out of sight, out of mind’ with BPD/HPD, in other words the heart grows colder vs fonder.

  118. Plus she has a small entourage of enablers who work with her. I have heard them sit and scheme against men i.e. how to get them interested, how to treat them etc…I thought rather childish, sort of teenage like. One of these enablers was telling me how (and she sleeps around alot) really liked some guy whom I had seen. They had been together and he was a player. Well the poor fellow was talking to or flirting with a girl on a terrace, my ex’s enabler threw her wine in his face (that is fine to a degree) but then smashed her glass over his head and put her cigarette out in his face. I told her she was wrong, but my ex and her thought he deserved it….that is how they think.

  119. I am married to a BPD man. We have been together 15 years. We have a 7 year old special needs child. He must stay home to care for her because he has no job skills or motivation to work and provide for his family. He never has, even prior to our child. I have always had to work for both of us to support us. We had agreed to not be on facebook though I think it was a way to further isolate me. I have older children I like to keep in contact with and see their pictures. I was stupid and agreed. Two months later I went on and wished my child a happy birthday and he saw it. Now I am a liar and cant be trusted. He has been raging for weeks and I do not know if there is anything I can do or say to help the situation. I have become “nothing” in his eyes. He distorts me as a person with his lies to feed his anger. He is kind just to pull me in to tell me how horrible of a person I am. It is hard to leave because I am the only one who pays bills and own our house and he states he will take everything. He is beginning to rage at our special needs child. Im at a loss how to hjandle this. What is wrong with me to stay with this madman? I am very successful in separating his distortion and lies from myself personally but it becomes more difficult each day. I feel as if Im in quicksand. I truly love my husband and when he is well he is a wonderful person. I want to make it work but at a loss as to how to help him. He refuses treatment stating it is my fault. Due to my daughter I feel I need to try to keep peace in the house but it is always out of my control. My question is….If I am choosing to stay today how can I cope. Leaving is not an option with my daughter and he refuses to leave. I feel stuck but do truly love my husband. Just looking for a way to cope.

  120. I do not know if it is my place to give my opinion, but will give it a try based on your situation. FYI, I recently ended a relationship with a uBPD/HPD woman. See above your message.

    Firstly, do you know he has some or all the traits of BPD…in other words has he been diagnosed.

    Secondly, a man who stays at home, has no skills, no desire to help per se except with your unfortunate child, well that is a big flag.

    Thirdly, why would a man isolate you from your older children unless he is hiding his shame for being perhaps lazy, unskilled, unwilling etc. I think perhaps he might be afraid the your older kids will wonder also…why do you pay all the bills, own the house etc etc etc and he does very little. Moreover, if he worked perhaps your child could get the professional help needed.

    Fourthly, no matter how we look at things regarding men’s roles and women’s (I have no problem working and in fact do for a woman at my place of employment) role in the world. If a man does what your husband is doing he probably feels like an outcast, a loser, a leech, especially when he sees men going off to work, their wives perhaps also going off to work etc. Then TV shows and films depict the traditional modern family etc. So yes, all this eats at him.

    His only course of action due to his inadequacies, frustrations with himself etc. is to take it out on you.

    Fifthly, taking your anger out on anyone is not good, but on a child is very bad, and worse a child with special needs.

    Sixth, ask yourself what do you love about him…the sex, when he is nice to you, when he is caring…well in my opinion, sex should always strive to be good, being nice to each other is a given otherwise why bother, caring for each other and our responsibilities is important…so what do you love? All that you should be entitled to in any relationship?

    Seventh, I would dump him, probably thump him too, simply because he sounds more like a lazy person…skills you can acquire, desire to work should be part of life, wanting to prove yourself is important and makes you feel worthy as a caregiver, partner and lover.

    So, it is up to you to mirror yourself, write down what you love about him, hate about him. And by the way, how do you feel when you wrote…he stays at home, has no skills, is aggressive/argumentative/blaming? Does this make you proud at work, family, friends.

    There is my input, hope it helps.

    1. Hi Christina,

      Read what Tom wrote above. He sums it all up very succinctly.

      Obviously the fact that you two share a daughter really complicates things. If there were no biological children in the mix, I would say leave this guy next week (and I’m a BPD male who doesn’t like being rejected 🙂 ).

      Seriously, however, your daughter has special needs, and so do you. Those needs include living in an environment that is healthy for everyone: emotionally, physically, and spiritually (if you are religious or practice meditation).

      The fact that your husband is not working is pretty easy for a lawyer to explain to the court. He might still get visitation rights, so it won’t be a clean break. All the same, it is clear he is a “low functioning” Borderline.

      He still has the potential to get better. Low functioning is not permanent unless he wants to keep it that way. He can become high functioning, and eventually somewhat normal after serious treatment.

      The question is, do you and your daughter want to wait around for that to happen? Because it will take a few years to be honest. She [your daughter] needs you be to as happy as possible, and she needs to be a in loving home. Children with special needs do not thrive in a negative environment, it is simply unhealthy and toxic.

      As tom said, weigh all the factors and think carefully about the quality of life you and you children have, and *IF* there is any potential it would be better without him.

  121. My input is limited due to limited knowledge of all the details. Thus, believe you said things I did not think of.

    Today, saw the ex in her shop, but walked by and up the stairs. Then my son told me in the evening how she was sitting smoking with some guy with a beanie about 35 years old, roughish looking (bad ass type) and she jumped up and hugged my son…Sure it was her way of showing what a positive and outgoing person she is…or maybe to get to me knowing he would tell.

    Note, when I went for a weekend recently to Copenhagen with my son, he did his normal instagram (I do not do any social networking) of him shopping with Dad at A&F…well did not take long and she blocked my son from her instagram. He was offended but I explained she is angry that we are in CPH and she is indirectly trying to hurt me by saying *I don’t care your traitor’…something along those lines.

    Your thoughts would be appreciated.

  122. Smear campaigns. Can you please help and give some advice. I have described the scenario above and received solid advice re trying to recover and moving on. This I will do accordingly. Today I heard that my ex had seen my niece in a club and began a huge smear campaign. Please advise what I should do and how long before this storm blows over…she is BPD/HPD…please give me steps or suggestions I should take. Many thanks Tom

    1. Hi Tom,

      I was just reading through your latest comments.

      It is one thing for your ex to bother you, it is another for her to be talking to your son and/or niece.

      I don’t know what legal system is available in your city. If possible, I would HIGHLY suggest getting a restraining order against her. A competent lawyer can advise you about these things. It might be called something else where you are. A USA “restraining order” means someone can not come within X feet or X meters of someone else or their family.

      Obviously that doesn’t keep them away like a magic shield. The stipulation is that *IF* the stalker (which resembles her behavior) goes near you or your child, they are immediately taken to court and fined or prosecuted.

      If those legal protections are not available, I would consider moving without notice. You wouldn’t be moving because of her, more because your children and relatives are being affected.

      When children and relatives get drawn into breakups, that’s a problem.

      Based on your comments it sounds like you have the means to travel and avoid her. Please do so until she directs her attention elsewhere. She might even find another job and then you won’t have to worry about her being downstairs from your apartment.

      People move after relationships all the time: for personal, professional, and psychological reasons. Psychologically, it can be a fresh start that doesn’t involve bumping into the ex over and over again. If she finds you and starts causing trouble again, well, you can involve law enforcement because that is clearly harassment and stalking.

      The fact that she is bothering your child and niece is concerning to me. It reeks of immaturity and obsession. It is really unhealthy behavior. Given her looks and ability to woo men, I’m surprised she hasn’t moved on to next “victim”.

  123. Thanks, it is more difficult here…restraining orders, lawyers etc. It is not an option to move like in the States. It does not work like that. No she simply is HPD trying to show off that she is fine etc. But give her a few drinks, meet a relative of mine or anyone who knows me…she begins her bullshit smear. I want to simply avoid all that. I come home and walk past her shop rapidily, if she is outside smoking I walk by and do not make eye contact. Sure she has another someone on the side…but she needs attention, drama so it is not happening with me, so she releases on everyone I know…albeit, even if she is with someone else. Always wanting to prove herself, how good, kind and understanding yet the victim and how she tried to make things work…HELP

  124. I do not go out that much, and if I do I stay away from her hangouts. I mostly entertain at home. I like a low profile, maybe that is what got her interested in me in the first place…I do not date women with Taxi’s waiting, flaunt them etc…I keep things simple. But I know if she saw me with a woman she would freak. Heck, after a year with living with me…she heard that her ex was having a woman over for dinner…so she proceeded to his house, created a scene outside until he let her in…told the attractive woman that she was a whore, ugly etc…told her that her ex’s place was hers…the date left because her ex a total loser just stood there. When I heard about this, she denied this happened and was more interested who said it and how she would destroy that person. I said who cares…is it true…and she still denied it. But I knew it was a fact. She talks too much and lest does not know whom she told it too. Help please…this is a wild one

  125. She babbles, yes she talks and talks. She talks so much albeit being beautiful, that people are in a fog…half the shit she says is nothing unless with purpose. And when she says things some people believe and some ???? Anyway e.g. a friend of hers bf went to jail for ???? credit card fraud or something, naturally I felt badly for the woman (gf) but she came to the crayfish party (mentioned above earlier) and was introduced (note this is a good friend of my ex)…Hey everyone, this is Emma, her boyfriend is in jail….I almost fell off my chair, felt so sorry for Emma…and my ex just smiled and giggled.

  126. She calls that being honest…I confronted her on this..she said she was honest, then made it into a joke and that everyone knew anyway. Even if they did, why highlight this, why put her down, why…this is what I do not understand. Sort of like a breast cancer victim…hey everyone, this is Emma, she has only one breast…shameful.

  127. I would have loved to have said: Hej everyone this is Inka, she has BPD and HPD, implants and some other issues…what would she have done, killed me on the spot

    1. Hi Tom,

      Given your unique situation, and the expense of involving lawyers in obtaining a restraining order, I would recommend the following:

      1. Establish clear, non-negotiable boundaries with your ex. Examples:

      • Do not speak with my son, niece, or other relatives.
      • We’re NOT dating anymore. You have no right to be involved in my life.
      • Do not speak with me or show up at my door. I’m not interested.
      • If any of the above are violated, I’m involving the law.

      2. Tell your son, niece, friends, and others she also knows your situation FIRST before she has a chance to inform them. Obviously your son knows the deal. Spend an afternoon calling friends and family. Tell them you’ve broken up, and that your ex is very difficult. Tell them to ignore her.

      3. Change your schedule in small ways (or big ways if you can). Take weekend vacations. Don’t tell anyone she knows. Spend time with your son far away from the place where you live/salon where she works. Spend more time with other people who matter most to you. Reinforce those relationships. Guys tend to “take a break from friends” when they date women seriously. Return from the break.

      4. Don’t visit places she goes to socialize and showoff. That includes clubs and bars. If you must go, try to visit when she’s not around.

      5. Ignore her enablers and immature friends. They enable because she gives them something. It might be money, it might be attention; or it might be psychological like validation or self esteem. Whatever. They have no comprehension of the fact they’re being led around like fools.

      In summary, if physical boundaries can not be changed, strengthen emotion ones with the right people. Be firm and to the point with your ex and her friends. Leave no room for discussion or interpretation.

  128. All excellent advice and naturally will implement. That said, on the first one, at this juncture am seriously beginning to suspect that she is bouncing between all cluster B personalities…thus, if I somehow get the message to re those boundaries would this not make things escalate?

    In other words, is that somewhat a declaration of war and now it becomes a challenge for her…who wins, nobody tells me what to do, especially you Tom, you ended things and it is your fault. Therefore I am going to destroy you etc.

    Alternatively would you recommend I do not say anything and simply implement 2-5? Just ignore her, say nothing, no hello’s or good byes…just walk on by? Time will get her interests hopefully more into whomever she has now.

    I have listened to her before talk about her ex’s one minute they were great, the next story was what a loser, etc.

    As said, reality she does not face, everything is who said what to whom, TV shows e.g. Millionaire Wives, clothing, make up, self tanning, painting nails and taking selfies or telling the ‘world’ what she is eating, what nail polish etc or copy/paste words of wisdom from I think it is called Smart Quotes.

    Here is another funny/sad story…she asked me to take a photo of her sitting at a bus stop when we were abroad…I took the photo(s) and gave her phone back, well she went ballistic that I am a shit photographer with her phone. Finally I just said it is not my fault how you look. This stunned her, she then simply mumbled that I am an asshole and have no skills.

  129. Hi, quick update, need some advice. Got an SMS from the ex. It stated: Return the two lamps so I am less angry at you.

    Yes indeed she did purchase two lamps about a year ago valued at a couple of 100 dollars. I have no problem returning them although she gave them to me, but what about two diamond rings I gave her, should I ask for them back (which she refuses in the past)? Should I even respond? Is this a tactic to get in touch? Should I just leave it alone and return the two lamps? Should I ignore and maintain NC

  130. Tom: ‘…But am so hurt, sad etc that such a beautiful person can be so self serving, nasty and when she lied, she would get angry and angrier…’

    But she was not a ‘beautiful person’, except perhaps on the outside and that says a lot about you, does it not? That you will tolerate *any* kind of abuse if the woman is attractive enough on the outside.

    Time to look inside yourself, methinks.

    You didn’t even know her, as you cannot know someone in the first few weeks, so you just projected all your wants and needs on to her, which she picked up on and then showed you what she really was, which is an ugly human being not worth any man wasting their time on.

    Looks fade and eventually she will not be able to get by on that alone and everyone will see her for what she really is and, unless she gets serious help, she will spend her life all alone.

  131. Christina: ‘…I am married to a BPD man. We have been together 15 years. We have a 7 year old special needs child…’

    And you married this man and had a child with him for what reason?

    And you own the house and make all the money, but are staying with this man who is now abusing your child for what reason?

    You best look at your own behavior here. Stop playing the martyr and if you cannot stop for yourself, do it for your child. Throw him out and get a restraining order and, most importantly, understand that you are getting something out of taking all this abuse.

  132. ‘…This may seem odd that after being in a relationship for over 17 years with 3 children I am beginning to wonder if my partners behaviour is caused by having BPD…’

    What seems odd is that you would marry and have three children with a person like this and that is something you need to look at inside yourself.

    The thing about being with a BPD is that their ‘off’ behavior will be noticeable not long into the relationship, so anyone involved with someone like this must ask themselves honestly what in the world they are getting out of it.

    That is the only way to avoid getting involved with another BPD, as I have painfully learned myself.

  133. Tom:

    ‘…Hi, quick update, need some advice. Got an SMS from the ex. It stated: Return the two lamps so I am less angry at you…’

    Seriously? You need to ask this question?

    Who cares if she is ‘less angry at you’? BPDs are *always& angry about something, always aggrieved about something, always the victim, never apologize, nothing is ever their fault, you are dealing with a sociopathic two year old child in an adult’s body. BPDs are not capable of love, only faking it when there is something they want from you. Nothing you do will *ever* be good enough for them, because the only people they respect are the ones who treat them badly, people just like themselves.

    They are black holes who will suck the life out of you and anyone they get involved with. They do not care about *anyone*. Not their children or spouses or parents…not anyone but themselves.


    And BPDs never change, unless they do serious core work, which very few ever do, as that would mean owning up to the fact that they have treated everyone who ever cared for them like total garbage.

    Get it? And if you don’t, then you are the one who needs serious core work.

  134. From an article in Psychology Today that was most helpful to me in dealing with staying NC with my ex-bf:


    Why have you let people manipulate you and continue to do so?

    One reason is that you may be so hungry for positive attention and adoration (because you didn’t receive it as a child or from an important current relationship), that when they flatter you or tell you how different, wonderful and special you are for treating them better than other people do, you lap it up. This can also play to a grandiosity in you where you say to yourself, “I am special because I see the goodness in this person that nobody else sees.” Then you continue to lap it up which sets the stage for feeling either you owe them something in return or would feel guilty in disappointing them.

    A deeper psychological reason may be that you really don’t know what it’s like to feel truly wanted or valued for you, so you have decided that a close second is to get people to need you. And then you think you can control the relationship by just giving people what they need. This is not unfamiliar territory to you. Over time however, you realize that although you like to feel needed, you don’t like to feel used and begin to resent it.

  135. And by the way, Tom, if you BPD contacted you it is because no one better was around to stroke her ego, not because she misses you in any way.

    She feels total contempt for you, as you allowed her to treat you like garbage, and she has a point, does she not?

    Trust me, been there, any kindness is seen as weakness, something to be exploited and sneered at.

    The only question is why did you put up with this for so long? That is the most important thing to understand.

    When I stopped putting up with this abuse from my BPD ex-bf, I also stopped pulling punches and took the gloves off.

    Very satisfying to act exactly the way he always acted and to speak the way he always spoke. He was shocked at my no-holds-bars meanness, but I feel great about it. Lots of toxic emotions I was keeping inside, as the ‘better person’ in the relationship. The hell with that. I was being a martyr and getting something out of it and that had to stop.

    When he told me he always loved me (which no BPD is capable of, as they feel only raw need, which is not the same as love, not by a far stretch), I told him that he was incapable of love and that I would be happy to contact all his exes who would confirm this.

    No more of sparing a BPDs delicate feelings, which only apply to themselves, of course, while they trample on every one around them with vicious glee.

    Newsflash: She never loved you and that is not your fault. She is incapable of love towards anyone or anything, because she is empty inside. The only thing that matters is why you have allowed such abuse to go on for so long.

    That said, I still love my ex BPD, but I never want to see or speak to him again.

    Love isn’t enough.

  136. Hi NM, thanks for your input accordingly. This is what a needed, a reality check, a shake up and excactly what you described. I did indeed return the lamps, through my neighbor who rents from me and knows the ex uBPD.

    That said, I believe actually she is a mixed bag of cluster B…or more precisely a mix of BPD/HPD and NPD, and each one pops up during mood swings in various shades. I always said to her that being with you is like walking in a mine field, just when I think I figured out where the mines were, you move them, thus impossible to predict or interpret.

    She called over the Easter weekend and I listened as she blamed and threatened me. She said that my problem is that I do not cry (???), that I hurt her so much etc etc. She stated that next time she sees me she will beat the hell out of me (see above, her shop is downstairs).

    During this conversation I stated that I simply could not forgive her lies especially about her ex and maybe a few more I was unaware of. She yelled that that was the past and that she insisted on holding my hand when we went out (???) note am not too much into holding hands unless alone or some romantic moment. Then I said to her, so you lied, because now you are confirming that you indeed went to house, ruined his dinner with a date etc. Her response was she told me it was the truth (which is not true, she denied that vehemently and in fact punched me calling me a bully and a liar and delusional living in X-files). So now she slipped up, said that was old stuff and she sometimes does not tell me everything due to my ‘jealousy’…then went on to say that her ex is a friend and her friends are all very important to her etc. I mentioned the time she came home at 0430 and kissed me, said she would be back in 2 mins to say goodbye to her friend. She said exactly, because she loves me so much and missed me. So I then reminded her that she proceeded to take two bottles of wine and went down to her shop to party (after party) with her friend (enabler/proxy) and two guys. I went down at 0600 and saw this. Her response was nobody tells her what to do, and I countered but you just said how loving you were by kissing me and proceeding to continue partying. Call ended when I simply hung up on her.

    As for the points you made re staying with her for approx. 1.5 years and all this within weeks. Well the flags were there, but she was overwhelming, took me by surprise. Made me feel like nobody has ever done (also a flag)…the traditional BPD honeymoon phase or unconscious set up. Yes I have looked at myself and did not like what I was doing to myself, my values, my whatever, she would change for a few days, be nice and I thought wow, she has seen the light, but then hell would break lose again, or drama or demands for trips etc.

    I put up with it hoping things would change, but they did not. We had during that time 7 break ups and naturally the recycling. My trust was diminished each time, promises were made and never followed through.

    PS…the recent call I mentioned she stated shame on you Tom, that she has been waiting for me to call and apologize since Feb 14 when I threw her out.

    So NM, thank you because I sometimes slip a bit and remember the good times and the company and perhaps a little of the drama. But you are right, behind all this is an empty person. Would very much like to understand her true feelings, her modus operandi and try to predict her to protect myself. As said, she is smearing me accordingly.

    Any thoughts?

  137. “When I stopped putting up with this abuse from my BPD ex-bf, I also stopped pulling punches and took the gloves off.

    Very satisfying to act exactly the way he always acted and to speak the way he always spoke. He was shocked at my no-holds-bars meanness, but I feel great about it. Lots of toxic emotions I was keeping inside, as the ‘better person’ in the relationship. The hell with that. I was being a martyr and getting something out of it and that had to stop.”

    Hi NM, furtherance to my message above, please give me some examples of what you did/said when you ‘pulled the gloves off’.

    In my life, got home from work yesterday and she came running up and told me to give her a hug, be nice and say hello…I told her to back off please. Then she started to blame me about using all she told me against her, i.e. caught her lying a few times which she denies, then admits somewhat then twists it around that that was old news etc blah blah blah.

    1. Although some of NM’s rhetoric is a bit over the top, he/she is correct and sums it up just right. Say goodbye to this person immediately and don’t look back. Ignore and all attempts to make contact, manipulate, or otherwise get back into your life.

      Be clear, firm, and resolute.

  138. ‘…please give me some examples of what you did/said when you ‘pulled the gloves off’…’

    I told him that I know full well that he never loved me, he has never loved anyone, because love means someone else’s happiness is important to your own and he is incapable cannot do that, not even for a moment. No one else is a real person to him.

    That any generosity or kindness from him are manipulations to trap decent woman into trying to fill his bottomless pit of need for female attention.

    That because of his behavior, which he is capable of controlling when he wants something from someone, he does not deserve friends or love.

    And because of this, he will always be alone and that is his own fault, as he could change, he could do the hard work to change, but that would mean accepting that he has treated everyone he knows like sh1t and he can’t do that, because then he would have to stop blaming everyone else for his failures in life.

    That he is a bully in disguise, always playing the victim card, and it is tiresome beyond belief. That all he ever talks about is himself, he has no interest in anyone else or their lives, so he is a huge bore.

    That he is a liar, a cheater, and a thief.

    And to kindly fvck off.

  139. I have read a lot about BPD and it has given me a lot of armor against their manipulation:

    This website was helpful and this comment from a user sums it up. It is hard to find all the parts of this blog, but it is worth reading. Try to remember that nothing they say is real, it is just that they need something that moment. No one is real to them, we may as well be cartoon characters and if they say they miss you, that only means they are bored:

    BORDERLINE’s – listen up: We get it, okay? WE GET IT. It’s not fucking rocket surgery. We HEAR what you are telling us. We KNOW that you are suffering. We UNDERSTAND why you act the way you do. The same can be said of pedophiles and serial killers but society still holds them accountable, right? Don’t you?

    Now, that is not to say that you are pedophiles or serial killers but like them, you get your needs met at the expense of others and like them, you are vilified not because of your DISORDER but because of your BEHAVIOR.

    SO – that being said, what you must accept is the fact that we do not need to hear ONE more explanation about what you are going through. Whatever the reason, whatever the cause, what we need for you to do now is OWN your own problem, ACCEPT responsibility for your actions, ACKNOWLEDGE the damage that you cause you and everyone involved with you and take an ACTIVE role in getting yourselves under control. Period.

  140. Thanks NM for sharing! This is exactly how I feel…giving and not receiving, being lied to and told I am delusional or have ‘X-files’ on my brain, the drama of me, me, and me. The push and pull, disrespect, yelled at, hit, spat upon, and finally when I have had enough, since I could not indulge in any conversation of depth or concern, ended it, the smear campaign begins and the sms’s that start off by blaming and denial.

    Thanks admin for confirming NM’s input and message to cluster B’s since my ex was a mixed bag of them all but mostly BP and HP.

    br Tom

  141. Tom: Read ‘kellycali on February 14th, 2012 9:52 am’

    That is how Borderlines see the world.

    From her comment:

    “I am OWED something from other people because I have a hard life. My needs are more important than anyone else’s because of my hard life and I am entitled to mistreat others without the natural resulting consequences because I am ill, was abused, neglected, etc. Others are required not only to endure this poor treatment, but are also required to be endlessly compassionate and supportive in response. If they do not do this, they are horrible people.”

  142. Tom:

    While I get still get pissed off a bit if I think of some of the vicious behavior of my ex, I have had enough time to think things through and look at myself to see my part in this. I knew there was something off about him from the start and when I researched his odd behavior and feelings, I knew he was a Borderline.

    What I did not realize at the time was that *every* incident of bad behavior was a test and a test that I failed.

    I was not trying so much to save my BPD, as to show him what other people in my life had shown me, that there are better ways to behave towards others and that you should think how your ‘future you’ will feel about your behavior, so you can be proud of yourself and not ashamed. I was not trying to be the ‘better person’, but to treat him as I wished to be treated. Golden rule.

    That was a miserable failure, as BPDs see kindness as weakness, so all that happened was the testing escalated, so he could see how much abuse I would take before I walked out, which I did many times. Out of his apartment, out of restaurants, you name it. Once he got nasty or insulting or angry, I walked away.

    As soon as you let this woman abuse you, you let her know that you would take ill treatment at her hands, so she wanted to see what your limits were. Understand? You are dealing with a small child who was not taught limits by their lousy parents, so she is still seeking for a parent to set limits, which is how children feel safe. BPDs do not feel safe and will only feel safe around other bullies, people who don’t care about them, so will take no abuse at all, as they are a substitute for the parents they never had. They admire people who don’t really care about them.

    The fact that my ex is really a frightened child inside is why I do not hate him. I pity him, as I have seen him desperately try to control his emotions, but I cannot fix him, he has to do that himself.

    Once, when he was starting to lose control, he looked at me in so scared and said. ‘Help me!’ It was so sad. It was not a manipulation, he was terrified. I was able to help him at that moment but, as I told him, I do not have a magic wand to make all his troubles go away. If I did, of course I would, but life does not work like that.

    A few years ago, he did see a psychiatrist for over a year and he was much better, as he was on medication. But he finally insisted that the doctor tell him his diagnosis and when the doctor told him that he had a personality disorder. He told him he had BPD, NPD, and Paranoid Personality Disorder and that the psychiatrist had known this from the start.

    My ex emailed me to tell me that I would be happy to know my viewpoint was validated and, of course, I told him that I was not happy at all. I told him it was not his fault he was this way but, like all of us, it was his responsibility to fix it.

    He stopped going to the psychiatrist not long after, as he decided they were all quacks, but I told him that he really stopped going because he did not like the truth, which is that the source of all his problems was himself, not all the other people he blamed for everything that had gone wrong in his life.

    The problem with not accepting blame, I told him, is that it leaves you no place to go, as if nothing is your fault, there is nothing to change.

    Very sad. He is one of the three men I have loved in my love, I still love him with all my heart and have done so for more than 10 years now, but I will probably never see or speak to him again.

    I fear he will eventually commit suicide, as many BPDs do as they get older because, like many young people, they mistakenly believe that all their problems will magically disappear as they age, without any effort at all. So when that doesn’t happen and they are still isolated and alone in the world, they just give up.

    But I could not bring him up to the light. Instead, he would take me down with him.

    That said, I do not regret knowing or loving him. He is a remarkable human being in many ways and I hope only the best for him.

  143. Thanks NM, you make very valid points and am glad you are willing to share, advise etc. For me I naturally have questioned if she really is a cluster b, but all the things she says and does match up perfectly.

    As stated she is vivacious, attractive, vain, and the type of person you want around you socially. But alone the monster in her showed up. Drama, issues with friends, colleagues, not feeling good, push and pull, needy, secrative, lying, fight or flight, blaming etc etc etc Then the violence started after the 6 week honeymoon phase was over…call it the shit tests, then the violence, pretending to be a little girl, lazy, demanding, shallow and stubborn. Spitting, hitting, breaking things, then telling to hold her, love her…go away, selfishness. All this secret social media which she insisted was her following re fashion (??? hmm).

    She has over 800 selfies on her FB, and I do not do the social media thing. The bottom line is that her actions spoke volumes compared to her words.

    I suffer because I see her almost daily, eventually she will close her shop and move to another location, which would be good. I do not dare even bring any woman to my place. Sure I am doing my thing, blocked her phone and realize more and more how fvcked up she is. A social bar fly.

    Entitlement, absolutely! Thus the quote above is probably how she thinks. I know deep down she is ashamed but will never (for now) admit this, lots of guys around waiting for their turn to be abused. She ideally wants me (and am sure a couple of others) on a shelf, waiting for her to be bored and need of something, then contact me…after the next victim will be searching the web for understanding WTF just happened.

    Impulsive and abusive, need to be center of attention. Dramatic and promiscuous. In one of her rages she became very calm suddenly, and said…I am going to get a baby from you!!! My friends are having babies!!! I responded calmly that why would you want a baby when you cannot even handle yourself??? She stated that because she knows I would be a good father and that I would pay monthly. Wow, pay monthly…a slip up on her part of what the truth and reality would be had I stayed.

    At 32 am sure she will get what she wants in the not too distant future. For now she probably hates me for abandoning her and not playing her game and taking shit tests.

    Thanks NM, please do indeed keep writing, it helps me get perspective accordingly. And thank you Admin for having this. FYI, I am in Finland.

  144. Tom, you have to ask yourself why you did not walk away after the six week honeymoon was over.

    That is the question I had to ask myself and the only answers are:

    1. I enjoy the abuse at some level.

    2. I enjoy the drama.

    3. I like to argue.

    I cced the final link to the articles about BPD, as that is the only way to find the earlier articles, but this is one thing I read there that has always stuck with me:

    ‘….If you are in a romantic relationship with a person with BPD, that might indeed be the best course. Has the relationship already been going on for quite a while? You won’t like hearing this, but this means you: you need to ask yourself why you are attracted to such a difficult person in the first place. Please don’t give me the usual crap like, “I didn’t know what (he or she) was like that at first, but now I’m involved and I can’t get out. (He or she) was so charming at the beginning of the relationship!…Sorry, but most people run at the first sign of BPD behavior. It is not subtle, and one does not often have to wait very long before one first sees it…’

    So ask yourself what you got out of it and be honest. Stop seeing yourself as a victim, which is what comes across in your comments, and start seeing yourself as what you really were, which is a willing participant in a toxic relationship.

    That has to be accepted to be able to move on *and* to avoid getting into the same kind of relationship in the future.

    You were not a victim. You got and are still getting something out of this unhealthy dynamic, so ask yourself if that is what you want out of a relationship.

    If ‘yes’, then fine, no complaining.

    If ‘no’, then protect yourself by not playing this game anymore.

    It is not easy and it may take some time and you may backslide and obsess and whine and bore the heck out of your friends, but that’s okay.

    Just decide and if you cannot or have not, then don’t lie to yourself about it. Just admit you are not done taking abuse and go for it full throttle. I assure you that this woman will be thrilled to give you more of what you crave and maybe that is what has to happen for you to accept that this is how it will always be with a BPD who has not made any effort to fix themselves.

  145. Indeed NM. Thank you once again. I do not feel like a victim though, sorry if I came off that way. Yes I should have walked, and did walk 6-7 times, the relationship was recycled. Sort of like a procelain bowl, cracks, cracks again and again…son nothing left to glue together.

    Your and admin’s input has helped me tremendously. Yes I admit, she did bring drama and there seemed to be life around me all the time. But when the abuse was turned on me and indirectly at my son. Well then things changed dramatically.

    Moreover, I consider myself well educated, traveled and street smart. But this hit me like a ton of bricks. To the point I began to question myself i.e. putting my values, needs, desires aside to people please her endless demands and need for attention and acceptance of almost any and all behavior.

    When she lied, I figured that was not too bad, a bump…but when this continued then it was too much.

    Admin: Quick question, when a BPD lies and gets aggressive then flight or fight mode, then later states oh that is old news, we talked about it, get over it…suddenly my response is you hit me, called me delusional and X files mind…she looked confused, denied…Do they realize that so many lies create confusion in keeping track?

    NM, your way of expressing yourself is great and determined and convincing. This is very honorable. Am not trying to defend myself, am simply trying to figure out why, why did this happen. How did I let this happen. When I walked away the first few times (threw her out) she somehow managed to come back and I let her back. Loneliness perhaps, lack of drama, lack of interest to bar hop and meet new women. It simply turns me off to chase, am tired of it. When someone like her comes into your life suddenly it is amazing initially. But I guess one becomes blind sided.

    I read once that BPD are like a hit and run driver…sad. They keep denying, lying, and taking out all their issues on their partner. Yes I may be a trigger, but as said, I tried to have a functional relationship with a dysfunctional person who ended up being only an illusion.

    I suffer because of the smear campaign…can feel it the way some of her enablers (if I see them) stare. Coupled with the proximity of her shop. So I avoid at all costs.

    As said, currently I have NC, in fact ignore her totally. I walk by when she is taking a break smoking outside her shop and I look away. I have nothing to say. Sure this is also giving her amo or whatever, guess she strives on emotions either good or bad ones, love and hate. But I want to be indifferent. Hard though. Her treatment of the relationship even as a friend is disgusting and what saddens me is the lack of remorse and empathy.

    The lack of respect, lack of ???? Who knows what. WTF was I thinking. Your lamp explanation e.g. Are you kidding…they are always angry really made me think.

    Please keep writing to this blog and me, because you are helping me tremendously. I do not want to tire people with my obsessing, yes obsessing. I want to be indifferent.

    Revenge, sure. But that is impossible with someone in total denial, smear campaign, etc. Am I suffering from Stockholm Syndrome…all the blame and abuse made me question myself multiple times until I had enough. Even this she blames me, e.g. Have been waiting for your apology since mid-February???? Apology my ass.

    1. Hi Tom,

      “Do they realize that so many lies create confusion in keeping track?”

      Sometimes we don’t, because we’re throwing everything we can at you to avoid feeling abandoned or rejected. It becomes old news to your ex because she has your time and attention again, and therefore the tactics and words from the past are forgotten.

      If you try and remind her, she might remember upon deep reflection, but probably won’t admit it to you. Again, BPDs fear abandonment, real or imagined.

      She seems to be extroverted, which is above my pay grade because I’m introverted and would tend to focus my social energies on a few people; whereas your ex seems to have a few enablers, you, plus any other guys she’s stringing along.

      I would stay the course NM has recommended: clean break, and stay away forever. (Even if she emails you in 6 months, or randomly appears at your doorstep. It’s done, move on.).

  146. Thanks Admin, appreciate your advice…this and NM’s advice helps me along the way to realize the truth of what has happened. Somehow I wish I simply would not feel so betrayed, lost, and used. The superficialness of this person, the empty promises, the blame and abuse (physical and mental).

    No am not a victim or feel sorry for myself. I just feel sad that I bullshitted myself that perhaps things would get better, things would change to what they were. Obviously not the case.

    You mentioned enablers, well those are her entourage of women around her coupled with the various men whom stand in line.

    I know in the longterm this was a train wreck ready to happen, but I tried so hard to regain my dignity, avoid blame, disagreements etc. How could I be such a fool!!!

    Wish I could call you and NM simply to say Hi, thanks and maybe understand more of this nightmarish loneliness I feel inside.

    NM stated (based on what I said) her beauty…the exterior which says alot about me and my choices. Sure, someone who is extroverted, vivacious, and totally ‘sold’ on you and what you do/say…then shit hits the fan without any warning. Thus was confused until I saw a pattern.

    Lying is the worst. I prefer to get bad news up front and dealing with it accordingly.

    So I would call, but realize that there are privacy issues and sometimes people are not willing to share too much online (I wouldn’t) per se. Perhaps you could forward my email address to NM or you get directly in touch with me albeit there is a time difference.

    br Tom

  147. NM: I liked some drama, I liked some critique (made me think from perhaps another perspective that I totally did not think of), a good arguement is fine, but not when it is unfounded personal cheap shots which make no sense.

    An example, she stated I hate jews! I asked calmly why? Why would you HATE them, they are people, what have they done to you etc…well her shallow minded response was total bullshit. Yet her good friend whom she envies and jewish, so you can imgagine the argument escalated…how come you say A, do B and act like C…very confusing, no logic. Conclusion, shallow and narrow minded comments that are tasteless and stupid.

  148. Wow, just a quick update, went down to assist the window installer to get his vehicle out of the building, went out on street level…yep there she was smiling as if nothing, going about her smoking and shaking a carpet out on the street. She looked great as usual…but I simply turned away to shake the window man’s hand and went back up. It is as if nothing…sort of 1.5 years was like going to the movies for an hour and three quarters…sort of like nothing. I feel like shit and she seems to be totally cool, happy, and ….

    Admin and NM, do I care, sure, it is very diffcult for me to see someone, albeit, a cruel, manipulative, lying, abusive, self centered person whom one spent many good times and tremendous amount of bad times. Just wish her shop will bust and she moves, or better, she gets pregnant and then all hell will break lose.

    But still feel stupid. Am angry at myself for letting myself believe in the bullshit I put up with. The delusional lying and gaslighting, projection….Am enraged at her, and myself…sad, no NM, not a victim, just trying to comprehend the impossible.

  149. Tom:

    More reading for you that might help:


    This is right place to deal with the obsessing. Much better than to wear out your friends, as people here are either BPDs that are trying to get better and have made a lot of progress, like the Admin, or totally recovered, which takes a lot of work and is admirable.

    So don’t worry about boring people, best to get it all out and then eventually you will bore yourself and that’s how you will know you are getting better.

    As far as feeling stupid or angry at yourself for putting up with all the bullshit? Ease up, yeah, that was stupid, but so what? Smart people do stupid stuff all the time, big deal. You just have to shrug, accept that sometimes you are an idiot and that’s okay. We are all idiots some of the time, especially when we are in love.

    It is tough to live so close to your ex-BPD and if you cannot move, hope that she will eventually, as her job is somewhat transient. Be prepared to have mixed feelings about that, if it happens and that is okay too.

    I have had a lot longer to deal with my ex-BPD. I was with him longer, ten years, and we broke up almost two years ago, although I have spent time with him since then, not romantically though, as aside from being in a relationship, we were close friends. He is a loner, I am a bit more social than him, but we have a lot in common and enjoyed each other’s company a lot of the time. I miss him as a friend more than as a lover, but most BPDs are good lovers, because they live for the moment, nothing matters but that moment in time, which is exactly why they are not much good in any relationship.

    The good thing about having some time away from seeing or speaking to him is that the anger has diminished. I was very angry at him for a long time, as what I loved the most about him was his absolute sincerity and lack of guile and later I thought that was not true at all and I felt deceived.

    But it was true. It is just that for a BPD what they feel at that moment is all there is, so they are like a child insisting if you get them a puppy, they will always care for it and then forgetting all about it in a few weeks.

    I miss him, he was very dear to me, but he is not in his right mind and I cannot fix that. It is not his fault that he is so damaged and does so much damage to everyone around him, but it is his responsibility to fix it.

    It will be very hard for him or any BPD to do so, because they will have to face how badly they have treated people and how badly they have behaved and that is shameful. But there is no other way to get better than to go through the shame and get to the other side.

    I don’t think he can do it. He told me very calmly a few months ago that he would probably commit suicide in five years and I do not doubt it. Many untreated BPDs do, as when they are young they think things will magically get better when they are older and when they do not, they despair. He told me that he will call me beforehand and give me a chance to talk him out of it, so that is a good thing.

    Because he cannot make me angry or upset anymore, he cannot pull me into his drama, which he needs to not feel dead inside, it is easier for me to stand back and see if there is really anything I can do to help. And I don’t see that there is.

    Like I told him more than once ‘love is not enough’ and if there is anything more heartbreaking to have to accept about life, I hope I never find it.

  150. Tom: Also, it takes about a year to get over a bad breakup, as it is grief and that’s how long it takes to get better after a death. But you will never be the same, which is not a bad thing.

    Cut yourself some slack for all sorts of ridiculous behavior, including revenge fantasies, hopes you can get back together, hooking up with other women that you don’t care about (easier for me to have done this with men, as I am a woman), drunkenness etc.

    I also wrote venomous emails, most of which I saved to draft and never sent. Very therapeutic.

    Don’t expect too much from yourself, as you are healing from a trauma and it is okay to curl up in bed and hide, if you need to, but not all the time and not forever.

    But eventually you will get better and any time you meet someone like that again, alarm bells with go off in your head.

  151. Thanks again NM, that is what I am doing, hiding per se. But I do feel like crap. Sure I have had a couple of dinner dates at my place recently…but it just did nothing for me, and I felt like I was betraying ‘her’…which is obviously not the case. So I did nothing. Tonight I have a friend coming over, but again, I feel like aborting this dinner since am not attracted to her in any way…Oh well.

    Interesting that you are of Finnish decent, I am American and mother was a Finn. Thus I live here now for the past 14 years. Taxes are sky high here. Are you able to see my email address?

    Perhaps Admin can and can forward it to you accordingly. Naturally I respect your privacy and I do indeed thank you kindly for being stragiht forward (a Finnish thing) and brutally honest. Seldom does anyone force me to realize the truth about the ex and myself.

    Your comment about going back full throttle and the ex surely is willing to continue what she does best sort of stunned me a bit, in a good way…I guess I just want to understand, I truly wanted to help and I truly was delusional about being able to do so. The thing with her is that due to her looks and charm outwardly, she simply does not have to change, why should she??? Men line up to be her following victim/challenge. And if there is no cat and mouse then she will get bored. The cycle continues and this is not my business anymore.

    br Tom

  152. It always comes down to is your life better with this person in it or not?

    Being with a BPD means dealing with great anxiety all of the time. It means endlessly trying to please someone who cannot be pleased, because the very act of trying to please them makes them feel contempt for you. This is not rational, of course, but it is the way the see other people. They only admire people who treat them the way they treat others, people who are indifferent to other’s feelings, people who bully people into doing what they want, people who will walk away from the relationship and never give them another thought.

    Everything is a test with a BPD. I am not saying they are always are conscious of this, more that they cannot help testing people to see how much abuse they will tolerate before they walk away forever.

    Borderlines are terrified of abandonment so this, in a way, is forcing that to happen, so they can tell themselves that they were right all along and the person really didn’t care about them. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy, in other words.

    Are you sure your ex was a Borderline? Not a sociopath? Not NPD? Because most BPDs are not very social and are rarely the center of a group of friends, as their behavior would strike most people as odd not long after they meet them.

    BPDs hit most of the bullet points below:

    – Emotional instability, including intense emotional anguish, irritability, and anxiety/panic attacks.
    – Inappropriate anger that is intense and difficult to control.
    – Chronic feelings of emptiness.
    – Self-damaging acts, such as substance abuse and unsafe and inappropriate sexual conduct.
    – Recurrent suicidal behavior, threats, or self-harm (cutting etc).
    – Paranoia
    – Intense and unstable relationships that alternate between over-idealizing and undervaluing others.
    – Overly dependent and clinging behavior in close relationships.
    – Black and white thinking (splitting). People are all good or all bad.

    It really is not hard to notice. As a matter of fact, it is impossible not to notice, as this kind of behavior will strike most people as very ‘off’ and they will run for the hills.

    A BPD will call someone they know for a month in the middle of the night for some ‘crisis’ which is all of their doing. Kind people who they just met will mistakenly believe that they just happened to meet someone at a bad point in their lives but, over time, they realize that these crises are *always* occurring, because the drama is started by the BPD.

    And they stop answering the middle of the night phone calls, as there is no end to it. At that point, the BPD tells themselves that they were right and that person never really cared for them.

    BPDs do not get abandoned, they push people away to affirm their worldview that nobody can be trusted.

    Circular logic.

  153. A good read. Yes I do think she is BPD with one exception, she did not ever talk about suicide. That said, the self mutilation is there to a degree: 1. tatoos (flower on shoulder to remind of an abortion at least so she said, a couger on her neck and her ex boyfriend’s name on her hand which she refused to take away, felt bullied), 2. then she used to pull her hair and eat those strands when stressed and finally 3. the implants, but that was and is vanity.

    But I honestly think she is a BPD because the rest of the list above does indeed fit perfectly. And moreover, her constant lies, social networking, everybody around her is a ‘great friend’, most women are whores (she said this alot) very jealous and accused me often of flirting which was not true.

    So I think she is a bit of a mixed bag perhaps, with high levels of HPD, NPD and BPD. When she went out, often, she would spend hours getting ready, then invite her enablers and do their hair etc. Probably immature too, but would ask me how she looked, I always said great, and thought to myself, wow, all this fuss just to go for a drink, the war paint was on, the seductive clothes and out the door. The following day was her laying in bed the entire day, with breaks of am hungry, shower, then watching TV and her iPhone close by…

    She often posted, as if to tell everyone, photos of herself, nail polish, food etc. Seeking approval and likes I guess.

    Anyway, she said at times if I showed any interest in getting intimate that I treat her like a whore. So naturally I would back off…and feel terrible, so would slowly turn away, this resulted in a few insults e.g. you are overly sexed, you do not understand I feel XYZ, then suddenly she could explode, just as am about to fall asleep by grabbing my head, strangling me, then when I pushed her away, she would burst out crying etc claiming that I am cold and heartless.

    When episodes like this occurred I thought, hmmm, did she get a bad SMS or is her ex torturing her, or teasing her he is with other women, thus the verbal and physical abuse on me.

    It was a constant push and pull. And numerous times where she had the ability to read my mind. Which was bullshit. It simply was her guilt/shame surfacing. She was a master FOG’er and used the word…yes but I love you…thus I am justified to treat, beat and put you down.

    One minute everything I did was perfect, then the same thing two days later was total shit.

    This is how I felt…I was craving the first 6 weeks back. Then realized it was a mine field I was walking in, triggers, mood swings in moments, chaos, fighting with girlfriends, claiming her clients drain her psychologicially, everyone wants something from her etc.

    Once I figured out the mine field thing, I became cautious (this is when I was accused of being unemotional and cold) and so I would figure out there are the mines to avoid, and change tactic slightly, but come to find out, she moved the mines constantly.

    So yes, she pushed and pushed, then gave me the shit tests, then lied and when caught I was the crazy one, jealous, insecure, dellusional, X-files in my brain, etc. Now I realize more and more that she was probably describing herself, or trying to reach out.

    So NM, this and many other stories brought this whole relationship crashing. And it never was her fault…NEVER. She wanted me to sell my apartment and showed me pictures of some for sale. Well not sure you know too much about Finland, but in Helsinki center it is about 7000eur/sqm…plus taxes for selling and taxes again for buying a place. In other words she wanted and wanted…then came that ALL her girlfriends are getting cars from their boyfriends…I asked her to name one. She could not, except for those who recently got married and THEY bought a car together. Nobody she knew just said here is a car. This made her call me names like cheap, greedy, etc.

    Bottomline, BPD/NPD/HPD and sociopath all mixed together.

    NM, thanks for your inputs, they help me along the way. And naturally admin for having this blog.

    BR Tom

  154. Reaching out!!! NM and Admin. Since the break up I have been with a few women, I mean this in the spirit of transparency and not rudeness towards you NM, but somehow they just don’t seem to have what it takes. Naturally I think…hmmm Tom maybe you are your worst own enemy…true, am highly critical of myself when I fail or make a poor ‘call’. BUT the issue is the my ex BPD/HPD/NPD…they are all intertwined and I did not know which personality will pop up, so I simply became nicer, more giving, more supportive…to no avail. Yes treat her like shit and she will be nice, and that is not normal in my book.

    Perhaps it is too early to go out and try to meet someone normal, giving and caring, someone who can give and take and that does not mean 50/50 but still I miss the chaos at times. Yes perhaps I am a people pleaser! Reality sets in and then I realized that this was and is an endless pit. Plus the lies, abuse and who knows what. Secrets.

    I told my ex that the only type of man she could be with is someone who is blind, deaf, and handicapped…then she could kiss him on the forehead, make herself ready for the night and he would be clueless what is going on.

    I tried to explain, you cannot have your cake and eat it too. In Finland there is no such expression. She never understood it. I drew it for her, but nope, did not sink in.

    Sorry for venting, just having a bit of hard time. As stated, your advices are very important for me on this journey alone. Luckily my son will be here tomorrow for a week. But I will maintain NC and when I see her down below in the shop I will simply walk by…also when she stands outside smoking…walk by quickly and not even look at her.

    Hate knowing somebody else is touching her, but those are the facts. Gosh I feel lost, stupid and dumb. I can give great advice, assess situations and tell the truth, however with myself, am a joke.

    Bear with me guys. And thank you Admin for having this blog and not deleting it or me. Friends simply say move on, forget her, lots of fish in the sea etc…easier said than done.

    1. Hi Tom,

      Since you are no longer in a relationship with your former girlfriend, I don’t see a problem with dating others, or even random hookups. You’re not violating a partner’s trust or pledge to be monogamous. At this point you’re just being human.

      The jealousy is natural and to be expected. She was an emotional roller coaster but probably a great time sexually. The fact that other guys are with her is only superficial reaction. You’ve already admitted many times here that you know, deep down, she is probably manipulating them. If they are well meaning, they will end up having feelings like yours in several months or years.

      I really hope she gets counseling or therapy. BPDs typically self harm with suicidal “gestures”. Some actually commit suicide. “Gestures” usually mean cutting, burning, or other forms of self abuse. A tattoo of an abortion doesn’t strike me as suicidal as much as it is a “look at me, I put this on my body” ploy for attention. In reality, this is beside the point.

      Remember this much:
      1. One day at time. No on expects you to be perfect.
      2. Clean break means you’re finished. No second chances (because you’ve already given her several).
      3. Take care of your son and family.
      4. Ignore her as much as possible. Make it clear you’re done with her.
      5. Give yourself permission to be human. Don’t be self critical during a stressful time. That can really do damage to your self esteem.

  155. Hi, I can see there are numerous stories like this one, so I’m writing to sort out my thoughts and understanding about BPD. My boyfriend of almost 3 years is showing many of the BPD signs. I’m at a total loss for what to do anymore, and now we’re in a situation that if I kick him out, he doesn’t have the resources to get his own place or transportation.

    I’ll back up a bit. I love this person at his core. I know he is not his disease, but good god, this is challenging my empathy. His rage binges are the hardest thing to deal with. It goes in cycles. Two weeks are great, then BOOM, it comes out of nowhere. He’s broken so much stuff (windows, doors, dishes, furniture, kicked in part of my car, etc etc). It’s like he has hulk like strength.

    He hasn’t shared a bed with me in 2 years and we only have sex every month or two. It’s weird because in the beginning, I’d never met a more wonderful, sexually charged, fun guy. Now, forget it.

    I don’t understand the blaming. It’s totally irrational. He blames me for EVERYTHING. He says that he makes a mess around the house because of me. He says it’s my fault he stopped working out and gained weight. ETC. I told him that he needs to take responsibility for himself, but that just makes it worse. He says that I want him to be unhappy, a failure, fat, etc. It’s just strange. I honestly just stare at him in disbelief because I have no idea what he’s talking about.

    I walk on eggshells. I barely express myself because it’ll send him off the deep end. We’re still sharing a space because he doesn’t have the means to support himself. I don’t have the heart to kick him out on his ass. I’ve trapped myself by accommodating his personal and financial problems, and I’m angry at both of us.

    I just don’t know what to do. He needs to leave because my psyche can’t handle the emotional abuse of this imbalanced person. Life is too short and he’s successfully pushed me away.

    It’s all so insidious because he seemed so amazing at the beginning, and I hold on to all the times that he was lucid and himself. Now, he’s turned into a monster. He’s 250 pounds and scary as sh*t when he rages; I’m 100 pounds. Picture it. There’s no reasoning with this guy. It’s like he’s been taken over by a dark venomous creature.

    Tell me this. Are BPD’s typically paranoid? He thinks everyone is trying to undermine him and he wants to get revenge on anyone who has slighted him. He thinks everyone wants to destroy his life. He thinks his phone is tapped and that people treat him weird because they think he’s a cop (he’s not). He thinks that super secret people keep tabs on him for some covert project or mission… details about which he doesn’t know. I don’t get it. I just stare in disbelief. I couldn’t make this stuff up, even if I tried.

    Thanks for letting me vent. If I ever end up with a BPD guy again, all he’ll see is dust in my wake because I will run for my life and never look back. This has been a soul sucking and spiritually draining experience. I’ve learned a lot about myself though. I cannot change or fix anyone. If he doesn’t want help or doesn’t recognize there is a problem, then I need to let go and move on. Lesson learned!!

    1. Hi Jessica,

      It sounds like you are describing someone with BPD: short tempered, rages, misdirected anger at you, paranoia (schizotypal BPD), bent on vengeance, etc.

      The fact that he was well behaved in the beginning is typical. People with BPD tend to fall head over heals, and as a result, give the appearances of falling truly in love. In reality, they are so desperate for validation and companionship that they will do anything to impress you.

      People with BPD fear abandonment so much that they do not understand how their personal actions and emotions in reality push those who care about them away. There’s a good book about this called “I Hate You, Don’t Leave Me”. That sums it up nicely.

      As much as I would hate to lose a girlfriend, I would suggest an immediate clean break. He doesn’t need a girlfriend, he needs a good therapist, meds for any depression or bi-polar tendencies, and a DBT (Dialectical Behavioral Therapy) group. He will be a better person in a few years, but you can’t wait around for him to get well.

      Even though many people with BPD are that way because of childhood trauma and a poor environment, it is still ultimately their responsibility to do the work necessary to get better. That doesn’t feel fair or right, but [for now] that’s the way it is.

  156. ‘…so I simply became nicer, more giving, more supportive…to no avail. Yes treat her like shit and she will be nice, and that is not normal in my book…’

    Tom: There is something in between being a doormat or treating someone poorly, you know.

    Not to a BPD, but that is part of the problem and it is *their* problem. Best not to make it yours.

    I can assure you that when I walked out on my BPD or hung up on him or did not speak or see him for months are when he…well, not ‘loved’, as BPDs are incapable of love…but was most interested in me.

    I only got his interest when he thought he was losing me.

    I only got his respect when he thought I didn’t give a damn about him.

    The women he loved the most were the ones who treated him the worst. Got him to give them money, then dumped him, or lied to him about something serious, or called the police on him.

    Untreated BPDs are only interested in partners who also have personality disorders. BPDs and NPDs are often a couple. Not for long, of course, but they attract each other.

    He had told me once about a concert weekend he had spent with an NPD woman, where they stayed in tents and she screamed at him so loudly and for so long that people in adjacent tents complained and yet he said he had a great weekend.

    I am a fairly normal person and, like most people, would not think a weekend of screaming and fighting was in any way a good time and that right there makes me incompatible with a Borderline.

  157. Jessica

    My ex-BPD boyfriend was paranoid, but not to that extent.

    BPDs never accept responsibility for any of their actions. Nothing is ever their fault. This appears to be a fear response due to faulty thinking, in that they think if they are wrong about even one little thing, that means they are wrong about everything.

    He will not get better, unless he is in serious treatment. He will probably get worse and there is nothing you can do to stop this or help him.

    It is heartbreaking to see someone you love destroy their life, but when you are dealing with a Borderline, you will not bring them up, they will take you down with them.

    Save yourself, before the violence turns on you.

    You have to either force him to move out or leave yourself. There is no other way because, like with an alcoholic, your helping him is allowing him to not face the facts that he is the problem.

    Like I told my ex-BPD, if everything is someone else’s fault, it leaves you no place to go, because you see yourself as a helpless victim, so nothing changes.

    Very sad and very painful, but once you are out of the relationship and deal with all the fall out, you will eventually realize, as I did, that you dodged a bullet.

  158. Admin:

    Exactly. Borderlines are desperate people and usually bright and extremely sensitive and perceptive. They pay close attention to rope in their next victim (not consciously), so that the first few weeks are amazing.

    Do not believe anything about the honeymoon period. The person that you will most assuredly see after the first few months is the *real* person, the one you will see more and more often.

    So ask yourself if that is how you want your life to be, constant arguing, constant drama, constant chaos, constant anxiety and dread.

    It does not matter that you love the person, you cannot help them and they will do their best to destroy you, not even maliciously, but out of self-hatred and a misguided sense of ‘do unto others’.

  159. NM: You questioned me if my ex might be a psychopath vs a BPD. In the above two comments (you and Admin) identified exactly how she behaves.

    As stated, at times I believe she is HPD then more BPD followed by NPD. I believe that all these are related, and various disorders pop up and in.

    Introvert vs extrovert. My ex was an extrovert, problem is her babling, being a hair dresser maybe that is par for the course. BUT, she spoke so freely about everything and anything, had an opinion about everything more or less, albeit very shallow. Very typical of HPD.

    The BPD was there especially during the phases i.e. honeymoon, control, etc…I do not think we went beyond the control phase.

    She garners attention because she is very attractive, coupled with the implants which hurt her back because my ortho doctor friend said that it is abnormal for her body to have such weight while bending to wash hair etc…so the body aches.

    I confronted, nicely, about e.g. her breast implants, and she had perfectly excellent breasts when I saw photos from the past. But she insisted that the 5000 euro investment was the best she has ever done. Yes she attracts men who stare at her, and even women. Personally they did nothing for me. Plus she would get angry if one was sexually attracted to her, normal for her…a contradiction in terms, look at me, how dare you stare like that…the push and pull even in that.

    I would need some more NM reality pushes…sometimes I simply cannot accept this disease, but I too want to dodge the bullet.

    I walked by her shop a couple of days ago, she had some friends outside and I heard her in a whiney voice…Hiiii…but I did not look and walked by to my apartment….later I came out and she was by herself smoking and walked by again…and heard her hissing at me…you are so stupid…but I did not blink or look her way…

    I just wish I could predict her moves, what is going on, what is she going to do, not do etc.

    br T

  160. BPD and suicide. My ex never spoke about suicide, but there was self mutilation (no not the tatoos), but she used to pull strands of hair, yet complained that her hair was so thin and not thick etc. I used to gently hold her hand to avoid this when she was stressed watching TV and mointoiring her iPhone social networking.

    We watched Charlize Theron in Young Adult, and my ex smiled many times because there were lots of similarites, she smiled and raised her eyebrows, achknowledging the characters behavior, no boundaries. We talked briefly about it and my ex stated simply how beautiful Theron is and that men were stupid.

    She adores her father because he ‘helps’ her, yet there is lots more am sure. He is a womanizer, married and divorced several times, children here and there. And even used my ex’s apartment as a place to entertain women. Thus my ex calls most all women whores, unless her enablers/proxies or women like Katy Price or some other celeb fashionista who basically does nothing e.g. Kim Kardishian etc.

  161. NM, can you share how you felt after the fallout and ‘dodged the bullet’. I know I seem to be pushing, but am curious how you managed after a 10 yr relationship to suddenly see the light, understand and accept, pull the same punches, shock and awe is all I can assume.

    br T

  162. NM, I wish I could simply call you and hear the reality from a person who has survived obviously…versus writing and waiting and anticipating.

    1. Hi NM, Tom,

      I don’t mean to stifle conversations, but I would rather not share email addresses publicly right now.

      Would I would suggest: one of you setup an anonymous email address at Gmail or Yahoo. Post that address here with a temporary password. Login and send draft emails to each other. Change the password once the both of you are inside.

      This can also be accomplished with private online chat rooms.

  163. Admin…thanks, I believe in transparency to a degree. Natuarally I would have no problem with you releasing my email to NM and if she is willing and has the time, I would gladly call her…and respect her privacy…I need a kick of reality verbally…I need to hear her story and how she managed to go beyond…am not there yet. It is really difficult with her and her enablers/proxies downstairs…I walk by and they hiss like snakes…I stand tall, am 1.92m but feel like shit, a loser…albeit know women look and am simply not interested. I am a one woman man…stupid but a fact. Cannot release although am dealing with a classic cluster B….would love to hear NM say Tom, for f’s sake…and kick me in the ass…nobody does so far and desperatly need a reality test. Feel free, then defer to NM if she accepts a call or not.

  164. If I had knowledge or conviction, I would share it with anybody…why? Simply if it helps them move on, understand and simply accept. I would do it and feel good about giving my input, if they take it great, if not. oh well…..

    br T

  165. Tom: Is there anything you liked about her, except for her looks? She is not smart, does not sound interesting, talks about boring stuff, celebrities and the like. What is it you miss about her? That is important to know about yourself.

    As for me, I knew my ex-BPD was a Borderline from almost the beginning of our relationship. I had no clue as to what BPD was, had not even heard of it, but his behavior was often very odd, as was the way he described how he felt, so I googled it and he hit every bullet point.

    (FYI: Self-harm is not breast implants, it is cutting and hitting yourself in the head so hard and so often that you have scars, as he has done.)

    What happened was that his job moved him overseas and he wanted me to quit my job and come with him. He tried for two years to get me to marry him and promised to support me for the rest of my life. He is very successful financially and yet I always said no.

    I knew it would not work, I knew that once I was far away from friends and family with no money of my own, I would be a prisoner. And I knew he would destroy me, as it is in a BPDs nature to destroy anyone they care for.

    They do not do this intentionally, they do it because their emotions are out of control, so they like to bait other people so that they too lose control. That makes the Borderline feel that they are not that bad, as they feel ‘See, you are no better than me!’

    Your ex does not sound like she has BPD, she sounds like a Narcissist, plain and simple. Borderlines are also Narcissists, but their BPD behavior is very distinctive, the terror of abandonment, the feelings of emptiness, the rages, the self-harm and substance abuse.

    Of all the personality disorders, BPD appears to be the only one that has any decent cure rate, as it is so debilitating that those who are afflicted with it will finally kill themselves or get help.

    Narcissists never think they need help, they just get old and lose their looks, yet they do not see that in the mirror. They are delusional about their superiority and are unpleasant to be around, whereas Borderlines are often wonderful company.

    I do miss him, but I no longer want to see or speak to him. I takes time. I have no interest in dating other men, that will take time too, so don’t worry about that. Spend time with friends and people you enjoy.

    The bottom line is that people with personality disorders do great damage to those they get involved with and you are traumatized, both by what was done to you and the fact that you let things get so out of hand.

    People with personality disorders play on your sympathy when they see they have gone too far. Unless they are sociopaths, in which case they are hopeless, they do this out of fear. They cannot set boundaries for themselves, so they want you to do so but, like children, they need to test and push to see what they can get away with.

    As much as I have pity for my ex-BPD, I have no interest in raising a child. I like being an adult and like living in an adult world.

    Anyway, ask yourself what it is you miss, as the only good thing you have said about your ex is that she is attractive. So what else was there?

  166. Tom: To help get over the trauma and grief of what you went through, it might be a good idea to see a shrink for a month or two.

    The end of any relationship is hard, but one where the other person did so much damage is even harder, as you have to take a hard look at yourself and ask why you would tolerate this kind of behavior.

    All relationships, even friendships, are a ‘deal’ and that deal has to be 50/50. Not every moment or even every month, but over time for the relationship to work, both people have to feel they are getting something worthwhile out of it.

    Someone on a website suggested that to recover from a relationship from someone with a personality disorder, write a list of ten things that they did that were horrific and/or abusive, them write a column of things they did that were generous and/or loving.

    The first column will be easy. The second column, not so much. It will be hard to fill up even half of it.

    Tape it up somewhere that you will see and read it every day. You will not have to read it forever, but you need to remind yourself why you are not in the relationship any longer and what will happen if you get involved in any way with the person again.

    Your feelings of desperation will fade over time, but you should find a support group and/or see a shrink for a bit of time to help you get over the hump.

    FYI: Sociopaths are the only personality disorder that cannot be cured, because all of the other ones involve thinking incorrectly about reality *and* strong feelings based on those incorrect thoughts. Sociopaths have no feelings, none at all, so they have to fake it and most people can sense that right away, so they target people of low intelligence. Sociopaths creep out even someone of average intelligence, but the other personality disorders do not. They may turn off people or puzzle people, but they do not cause that visceral reaction that is caused by everything being fake.

    Know that you are holding on to your pain and suffering for a reason and I understand that very well. You are holding on to it because you do not want to let go of someone you love. But know that is what you are doing, know that you are causing yourself pain by doing so, and have confidence that you will eventually be able to come to terms with letting it go and your heart will heal.

    I wish I could be more helpful, but I cannot fix anyone but myself and, if nothing else, loving a Borderline taught me that lesson most painfully. But then, we only learn from pain, human nature being what it is.

  167. Admin:

    Thank you for being so honest. It is a wonderful thing to know your strengths and weaknesses and own up to them.

    Everyone has weaknesses, but everyone has strengths too, opposite sides of the coin.

    Thanks for being brave enough to put it all out there. It is helping people and that is admirable.

    Good for you, fight the good fight.

  168. Thanks NM!!!! Indeed it is difficult to let go. Pursuant to the list, did that and yes, 10 negatives were easy, 10 positives…well I got to 6 (and even that was pushing it a bit).

    The more I have read up, yes she is more NPD with strong BPD and HPD traits. Am sure she will contact me somehow ‘just to check in’ and pretend to care. What is frustrating is that I betrayed my own values and myself. During the idealization phase (which lasted about 6 weeks) I could do no wrong. During this time had a business trip to Venice, I must have received 15 sms’s and 5 calls per day. A flag? In retrospect yes, she may have been thinking I was meeting up with some friends etc.

    When I get angry or upset, am very straight forward, diplomatically and undiplomatically sometimes when there is injustice or pure stupidity. But after I feel sad if I came down too hard on someone.

    My ex blamed me for everything, then tried to tell me how to dress, how to groom, how to xyz…oddly have never had issues with clothing or doing things. But the mental beatings continued. Then the physical ones. Standing at 6ft2in can you imagine anyone even believing you, even if you were standing there bleeding. And she lied, boy did she twist stories around.

    I am and will continue the NC, and again ignore due to the proximty of her shop below. Seeing a shrink would be fine, but am not to sure of any qualified ones. Personally I think the best shrinks are your friends, the ones who care and know the situation. But again, after a while they too have their own issues so one has to clam up.

    Your input and calm rational has helped tremendously, and for this I humbly thank you. Also Admin for hosting this forum.

    What truly bothers me, and I should have been more careful, but any and all very personal things she babbles about, tells her version of perhaps a story that happened to me (good or bad) and then puts the twist on it all. She talks about my son, my ex, my father, my family etc. even my net worth, everything, nothing is sacred and nothing is private. Yet she omitted to tell me about things ‘her friends’ do or say.

    Yes NM, she is emotionally shallow and if I ever wanted to talk about anything or heaven forbid my needs, all would end within one sentence or some nasty comment and the subject would go back to her, her friends, her social networking or watching some idiotic TV show. Christ, she could wake me up and say….honey, honey…I want this Bottega Veneta bag, or look I found a cheap trip to UAE…only 450e/person..and I would say that is great, but I have to work, then hell would break lose because she had ‘reserved’ and blocked off clients a certain week. I informed her to unblock those times. Coupled with great, so you think 450e covers it all? Holidays are for spending a bit, having a good time, not eating sand and drinking water.

    Sorry am ranting again. Yes have to get her out of my system. I just feel abused, stupid and regret having given her access to my heart and soul.

    br T

  169. NM, I cannot thank you enough for giving your input and experiences. This is what I need, kicks in the ass (stubborn or PTSD or ????). Anyway, this is what I feel like, and yes she is more NPD than BPD albeit, they all pop up.


    Moreover, I did the list: The bad took about 45 seconds, the good took about 45 seconds too, but then I got stuck:
    Bad: Lying (directly or indirectly by omitting), Abusive (physical and mental), Lazy, Selfish, Shallow, Demanding, Blaming, No responsibility, Drama, Bully Condescending, Disrespectful, Zero empathy, Unreliable, Vain,…wow, a few more than 10 popped in.
    Good: Attractive, Exciting, Sexy, Grooming (she liked to trim my hair…clothing etc.),Large social network. And there the list stops!

  170. I have had more time and I have also read a lot about personality disorders. Here are some links that helped me:




    That said, I do think that BPDs are, in general, more easy to sympathize with than NPDs, as narcissists eventually winding up boring the life out of most people.

    In a way, it is too bad that you didn’t spend more time with your ex, as what would have happened is you would have wound up just not caring, as people who talk and think only about themselves are dull.

    But read up on it as much as you can about personality disorders. That helped me to detach from the situation and, as sad as it is, to accept that no matter how much I love this man, he is the one who has to change and he is not willing.

  171. Tom: From a BPD website…such messed up thinking, such a waste, but this man is in therapy, so there is hope for him…

    Confessions of a man suffering from Borderline Personality Disorder:

    It is like I push the limits of all relationships: lovers, friends, and co-workers/employers. I thrive on the drama of it all.

    After reeling people in, I want them to feel sorry for me and work to try to make me happy. I want them to stop worrying about their problems and/or responsibilities and concentrate on me.

    However, I am actually sabotaging these relationships because there is only so much people can take. It’s in the Borderline’s nature to try to destroy anyone who gets close to them and failing in that, settle for destroying the relationship.

    I view everyone I know as either all good or all evil. When they do something I think is good, which means focusing all their attention on me, I love them. When they do something I think is bad, which means not paying attention to me or giving me what I want, I see them as evil.

    I hold a grudge forever, but at the same time, I think that all of my many transgressions should be overlooked. If that does not work, I will offer quick “I’m sorry” which I think should be immediately accepted, but any time I am angry at someone, I want them to grovel.

    I trust no one and am very suspicious. I feel like everyone has an ulterior motive, because I always do and I think everyone else is like me.

    What I hate the most is being criticized because I try to do everything right, but I criticize other people all the time.

    When things don’t go as planned or I am interrupted in my thought process, I have bouts of inappropriate anger.

    I also experience mood swings. One minute I am happy or content. The next minute I am depressed or mad. It is like I am bored with contentment and I seek excitement whether it is positive or negative.

  172. NM: Interesting thought process. This ultimately means that the Non NPD/BPD/HPD is doomed if they do and doomed if they don’t. Heads I win, tails you lose (and I win).

    Having to accept the reality is difficult, but as time moves ahead am forced to realize that she basically is so f—ed up (no offence to sufferers or victims either) that it does not matter how I feel.

    Yes I have to look hard at myself and heal. Why did I put up with this charade, this illusion and more importantly why did I tolerate the abuse, the disrespect, sense of entitlement, the selfishiness? As Admin once said quid, pro, quo. The more you give, the less you get. I tried so hard to get what we once had, felt that that was the true her, but now the more I have read about Cluster B’s especially the NPD/HPD with strong BPD traits, the more it seems that that phase was acting, albeit, probably parts genuine but a seething anger below the surface, a genuine wanting your cake and eat it too.

    What hurts is Why? Why all this wasted time, energy when things were good. Why all the lies, the abuse and the words of love, caring, wanting and needing. Words of truly love with no empathy or goodwill simply are four letters.

    What is she thinking, doing, with whom, what is she saying, how is she? Sure I ask these questions, but I should not care. Thus I maintain NC, walk by her shop as if it does not exist, walk by her as if she does not exist. Why? Well I know she wants drama, she wants me perhaps to grovel so she can kick me again, or put me on a shelf when she feels lonely or bored with whomever she is with now (could be several).

    Sure she liked this apartment, plus the conveniance of coming up, doing whatever she wanted and did very little to contribute. Couple this with her constant spending on clothing and fashion items. Asking for constant approval and being friendly to others while talking down to me.

    I will not recycle this since we have done so 6-7 times so far in 1.5 years. Just wish I was not so attracted to her. And truly wish I could meet someone to fill the void. As said, I have seen a few other women (discretly) but none of them make me feel wow and great. Perhaps I am too fickle, too demanding…I simply do not know.

    I do not like picking up one nighters in the bars (and here there are lots of those types) or women who throw themselves without dignity. Anyway, will try to stay focused on getting over this confusion and hurt.

    Thanks NM.

    br T

  173. Tom: ‘…What is she thinking, doing, with whom, what is she saying, how is she…’

    She is doing the exact same thing. Honeymoon period that lasts a few months, then drama, misery, fights, so forth.

    My ex-BPD got involved with an NPD. They were perfect for each other, as both have no concept of love, they just get off on the drama and the original infatuation, which everyone likes, but adults know not to take it too seriously.

    Can that lead to real love? For certain, but the excitement of projecting all your wants and needs on to another person never lasts. For most people, they accept that this was an infatuation and they bide their time to see if there is anything real, while enjoying the ride.

    For a person with a personality disorder, once the infatuation starts to fade, they blame the other person for disappointing them by being a separate human being with their own feelings and needs, not a mirror for the BPD. So they become enraged and abusive.

    Unfortunately, that is the real NPD, not the person you knew in the first few months. (Read some of the BPD comments about their unacceptable behavior and note how they say ‘That is not the ‘real’ me’ or ‘That wasn’t me’, which means they take no responsibility for their actions, so will never change.)

    Anyone she is with in the future will be subject to the same abuse and, unless they themselves are severely damaged, they will walk away and the BPD will be alone again, which is what they feared would happen, yet they themselves were the cause of it.

    My ex-BPDs next girlfriend had NPD. They were engaged within the first few months of meeting, despite police being called, restraining orders on both sides, verbal and physical fights that escalating to the point that neighbors called the police, endless drama that they both brought everyone into, family, friends, even the woman’s adult son. Despite both of them being in their 40s, their behavior was that of teenagers, but people usually forgive teenagers because they *are* so young and inexperienced. No one wants to deal with this behavior from an adult.

    Of course, their wedding was called off and most of their friends finally stopped inviting them any place. No one can or should deal with two adults causing chaos and drama at parties or outings. One close friend did not invite them to her wedding, out of fear that somehow the wedding would be all about them. And that fear was a valid one.

    I take no pleasure in knowing that most BPDs wind up alone and that this is their own fault. While it is not their fault they have a mental illness, it is their fault that they continually refuse to take responsibility for their abusive behavior and make no effort to change.

    I do miss my ex-BPD, but even thinking of spending time with him makes me cringe. He is smart, interesting, attractive, and rich, but we are all the sum of our parts and even with all of his good qualities, he still comes up short. Not by a little, but by a lot.

    Your ex-NPD will lose her looks someday and probably not far into the future. They say that by the time you are 40, you have the face you deserve, but even at 30 people’s faces show what is inside of them.

    And what shows the most with an NPD or BPD is meanness. Just plain meanness and no amount of good looks can hide that for very long.

  174. Thanks NM for sharing your insights, experience and knowledge.

    It is all probably very true…my ex NPD/BPD/HPD will continue the same way and there is nothing I can do or say. In fact, as you said ‘cringe’ at the thought is very valid.

    Yesterday I saw a documentary from the BBC and there were certain aspects of their attitude which reminded me, and made me cringe. No I did not buy tons of gifts, although she did indeed send links/photos of items she wanted, wished for etc. So there were lots of the manipulations I saw in the documentary which brought back memories of entitlement, manipulation, attitude, albeit not so clearly blatant as these people.

    Interesting trend…made me reflect on Cluster B’s


    br Tom

  175. Thanks NM for yet again sharing and giving your experience and knowledge. This helps me along the way, but it is very lonely not knowing what to expect, not to expect etc.

    As stated, I have blocked her phone and email address and maintain strict avoidance when I do see her, no eye contact etc.

    br T

  176. NM and Admin: I am out of it since Feb 15, and last contact was a month ago when she approached me to get her Supply, and I simply stated, I do not talk to liars! I turned and walked into my building, yes I gave the ex NPD/BPD/HPD her supply by answering. So my question is this…sure they moved on, sure they moved on before the end and lied/cheated…but do they ever regret, get paranoid about what e.g. I am doing during this total black out of NC? Do they think for a moment…hmmm, I seem to have lost control of this supply….I know, some will say…who cares, move on, but in my own f’ed up way, I hope she does, because this door is shut…no more, no more bs, lies, abuse (physical and mental). It is kaput, gone, finito…but am still curious. Thoughts?

    br Tom

  177. Tom: ‘…but do they ever regret, get paranoid about what e.g. I am doing during this total black out of NC?…’


    No one else exists to a NPD or BPD, so unless they need something from you, they never think about you.

    The only reason they might is that no one better is around or they think you are with someone else, so will try to manipulate you to drop them as an ego boost and to try to feel in control.

    People who can feel love do not treat others so badly. There is no way around that.

    It is possible to have a relationship with a BPD, as long as you do not take them seriously and keep your independence, but I do not think it is possible to have a relationship with a NPD.

    BPD are more real, their feelings are real, even if only in the moment, but NPDs are never sincere about anything.

    It takes time to get over something like this, as your emotions have been manipulated from the very start and you knew it and allowed it, so it is distressing in many ways.

    Best to accept that your emotions will be up and down and do not stress about that part of it.

    If you can get away and spend time elsewhere with friends or family, that distance is most helpful.

    Other than that, you need to distract yourself, even if you do not feel like doing anything. Just make yourself, so you don’t mope too much, especially in nice weather. I like to bike on the riverside, as physical exercise is always a mood lifter.

    But I did mope a lot and watch tv, curled up in a blanket. That is okay too, but not forever, so maybe give yourself a deadline for moping. It helps to tell yourself that after this date (a month or so in the future), that you will do this or that, even if you do not want to. Join a bike club, go on a trip, whatever.

    Sometimes when you change your environment, it helps to change your attitude, as it is easier to change the outside of things than what is inside of us.

  178. NM: Thanks for your insight and advice. When you split up, did you break it off with him? And how long did it take you to have the WTF moment? And when you heard e.g. that he was engaged to a PD, how did it make you feel? What gave you the strength to say, never want to see or hear from him again?

    I have often thought about your first insight regarding…what does it tell about you?

    Well I think that I am attracted to someone who is alluring/attractive/good looking, that is normal. Then when you engage with that person, the proverbial ‘beauty is skin deep’. But my ex got under my skin immediately.

    Passing by, smile, a hello, eventually join me upstairs, first night she was in the guest room, next night she insisted to sleep with me, honeymoon phase started, 5-7 wks later, she had more and more stuff at my place, but she did not want to be seen with me per se.

    Then the blaming her clients how they suck her energy, threw her phone, push/pull, then it was ex bf, how she loves two men, then it was she feels controlled, then she wants her cake and eat it too, then hitting me for not covering her toast with cheese on the corner at breakfast, social networking, more push/pull, telling me how to dress, spending tons of money on herself, saying how cheap I am and how I should spend, then accusations of jealousy, hitting, blaming, lying, break up and make up, and so the saga contineued. Drama every day, the egg shells. No conversation of depth unless it involved her.

    Her oldest friend was getting married, so she held the baby shower at my place. I bought the food, made the food for 10 women, bought the wine, helped decorate, then left…9 hours later was informed I can come home and tidy up while a few women carried on drinking…no thank you, just her friends the next day thanking her, and she going on for hours and hours about how much fun it was. Then another push/pull.

    br T

  179. ‘…When you split up, did you break it off with him?…’

    Not exactly. What happened is I always kept him at arm’s length, would not move in with him, would not let him move in with me, would not marry him, would not quit my job and move overseas with him, so he finally found someone else who said she would do all those things for him, so it was he broke up with me.

    I do not want to speak ill of him, although much of his behavior was over the top, but it was I who would not be with him in the way he wanted and needed. I knew it would not work and I knew it would destroy me. As he told me many times, I wanted only the good, but not the bad. And that is true.

    He got tired of waiting for me and found someone else and I do not blame him for that and I told him so.

    ‘…And how long did it take you to have the WTF moment?…’

    I had many moments like that during the ten years we were seeing each other, but since I saw him once or twice a week, I got most of the good and little of the bad. I am also old enough to know better than to go for that ‘whirlwind romance’ nonsense. I know that in that state of mind that I should not trust my emotions, as they are not reliable. And that it is just a fantasy, to be enjoyed, but not taken seriously.

    I would never let anyone move in with me who I just me. Best look at yourself to see why you allowed that. If you are in your 20s, it is understandable, but it should ring an alarm bell for any adult.

    ‘…And when you heard e.g. that he was engaged to a PD, how did it make you feel?…’

    My first thought was better her than me and that I had dodged a bullet. I was also very sad, as I knew I would probably never see or speak to him again, because even if his wife would be okay with it (and I would not, if I were married to him), it was not right or fair to any of us.

    I wanted him to be happy though, as most BPDs cannot stand being alone and she promised him all these things, that she would always be with him and never leave him and he believed it all, out of BPD desperation. The, of course, when she quit her job and moved in with him, the reality was too much for her and all of those promises came to naught. I felt terrible for him, as now he had no one, his biggest fear.

    I miss him more as a friend than as a lover. Even though PDs are damaged more than most people, there are things he and I have in common that I do not have with many people, there were things that I could talk to him about that I cannot talk about with anyone else. He knew a part of me that no one else does.

    It was a great loss even though, as he rightly pointed out, it was my fault for not committing to him.

    He was my dear but troubled friend, so I felt unbearable grief. I still grieve at times, but it is no longer unbearable.

    ‘…What gave you the strength to say, never want to see or hear from him again?…’

    Not strength. Survival instinct.

    He still contacts me and I will respond some of the time, if there is no drama, but when I get an email from him I do not feel anxiety or excitement or dread or any of those intense feelings that I used to feel, the feelings that kept me hoping the relationship could work on some level, even just as friends.

    Now I feel depressed when he contacts me. He is just so messed up and although I care deeply for him, there is nothing I can do that will make him better and anything I do will make me worse.

  180. Tom, you do realize that no one who loves or cares for you would treat you that way, right?

    So you need to ask yourself why you allowed it.

    As do I.

    Because anyone who is with a PD and sees themselves as a victim, rather than the truth, which is they got something out of it, will wind up in the same situation again.

    I can still get pissed off at some of my ex-BPDs behavior, but I was an equal partner and just as responsible for the relationship as was he.

    Best to own up to your own demons

  181. You are a strong woman NM…a good thing. Why I let this happen i.e. her moving in. I did not. She did. It started out with the flirt, the hello’s etc. How could any man resist. Sure there were flags, hair dresser, fashion, implants, provocative dressing, drama, excitement, seemed that things were happening, large group of ‘friends’, talkative,….those actually are all flags if one analyzes.

    The first night she slept in the guest room, we had had some wine. The second night she complained that she wanted to sleep in my bed with me. Note she lives about 4km from here. The sex (sorry for being so blunt) was incredible, the best, at least so she led me on. She was telling her friends how awesome it was, they all said how happy she seemed, glowing etc etc. She stated that even her implants felt softer…another flag or just simple BS.

    So she just stayed, brought more and more things over, then started rearranging my furniture, then telling me to paint, redecorate, what an awesome cook I was. How tidy everything was.

    Then I realized, another flag, I was doing everything (cooking, shopping, cleaning, entertaining her and her friends). Then she stated that I needed to dress more hip. Then came the complaints…I feel controlled, I feel suffocated, You do not understand how my clients suck my energy, then came the I love two men (her ex…but he is a baby all alone), then came the anger, the abuse, the hitting and breaking things e.g. my sons picture in a frame. And then calm, then break up, then drinking and partying with her friends, more abuse, no help in the apartment, cannot be seen with me because the ex might hear about it (WTF???)

    Exaggerated stories about her family, the richness, the ownership, the knowing everyone who is anyone. Then the spending (her money) on clothing…100-200euros whenever she went out. Problems with focusing on her accounting (collecting receipts to send to accountant) late payment fees.

    Then came the her not having enough time to get products for her shop. Note everything is within a 5 km radius. But she slept until her first client at 11-1300hrs and finished around 1800-1900. So I suggested she get up an hour earlier…boom, how I do not care, understand, how manipulative I was.

    Then the demands for Bottega Veneta, LV and other luxury goods (which I did not comply with). Then am told am cheap, all her friends get these. Then the trips. Every day it was something.

    She stated I was over sexed and using her like a whore. Not true, normal…once, twice per week at this point, then sometimes once every two weeks. It was all on her terms. Sorry to be so open. But she would push me away if I made any hint or approach, so I simply stayed quiet and carefully kissed her goodnight (she was on her iPhone social networking, looking at trips, fashion, plus TV was on)…then she could suddenly yell, you bastard, you are sulking, I want sex…I was half asleep…then she would grab my neck and put a finger in my mouth and pull. Sure I was not attracted when this happens. Then it suddenly was all my fault.

    Then the lies, visits to her ex. which she denied, the anger of being caught. The blame, the finger pointing, calling me delusional, a freak and so the saga went on.

    Perhaps I was in a haze of anxiety, depression, hope, lost, nowhere to turn to, low self esteem, Stockholm Syndrome…who knows.

    I am my worst own enemy, this I know. I have blocked her mobile and email. Am sure she has sent something to instigate, put down, reach out…something, but then again perhaps not, I will not know. I do know a smear campaign started.
    She maintained a bunch of stuff on her mobile from her ex boyfriend.

    Sure there was an age difference, and she felt entitled. Thus am 100% sure she is BPD/NPD/HPD. A true mix of that salad.

    Anger, threats, physical and mental abuse, entitled, shallow emotions, victim, aggressor, demanding, controlling, know it all but superficially, fleeting moments of kindness, cheating (no proof but am sure this happened), illness (tired, stomach, private parts, breasts, back), bored, center of attention, devious etc.

    Here is an example of a Friday evening: I get home, she might be here, she says ohhh, I invited x and y for some wine. What is for dinner, they can eat with us. So I prepare, they show up empty handed. She puts the TV on, the music on and x and y all have their iPhones on, sms, instagram etc…I serve dinner, excluded from conversation, they babble and babble, then ask my opinion about something. Then suddenly they take over the bathroom, I am cleaning up, they are putting on their ‘war paint’ dressed up rather provocativly…I knew they had planned to go out. Then it was…honey, going for a drink with x and y, you coming??? I said, no, go ahead, am tired after a full day….OK, I love you I won’t be late…a few text messages I love you…0430 she crashes through the door. Then the entire next day lays in bed feeling tired, exhausted, hungry, bored, sleeps etc…And there went Saturday.

    Sorry, am just getting it all out. Your input is greatly appreciated. NM, you are helping me lots…

    br T

  182. Tom: ‘…Why I let this happen i.e. her moving in. I did not. She did. It started out with the flirt, the hello’s etc. How could any man resist…’

    When you say ‘I did not, she did’ that means you are not taking responsibility for your actions, so best take a look at that.

    Most men would resist any woman who tried to move in with them that quickly, no matter what they looked like. I hope you realize this.

    That is an odd thing to do, let a near stranger move into your apartment, you understand that, hopefully.

    And phrasing it as if this was something that ‘just happened’ to you means that you still see yourself as a victim, that you had no choice to do all these things.

    You acted like a servant and let her treat you as such in front of her friends. No one will respect anyone who lets people treat them so badly, as it means the person does not respect or value themselves, so why should anyone else?

    I am telling you this because it is important that you stop feeling sorry for yourself and understand this was 50% your doing. Only then can you get better, because as long as you feel like it was not your doing, you will not change your behavior, because it was all her fault.

    If you are into being submissive to a woman, that is fine, there is nothing wrong with that, but you can’t have it both ways. You can’t get off of being treated badly and complain about it at the same time. Choose one or the other.

    From what you say about this woman, there is nothing about her that you liked except her appearance. She is not smart or interesting or funny or any other the things that make most people someone you want in their lives. She just looked good and, at first, the sex was good.

    If that is all you want in a girlfriend, that is fine too, but own up to it and don’t kid yourself about it.

    Harsh, but it all comes back to what did you get out of this? It seems that she never cared for you, she made that clear, and you kissed her ass the worse she treated you.

    Do you see how you were an equal partner in this?

    Because if you do not, the same thing will happen again, as it means you have ‘victimize me’ painted on your forehead.

    As for me, I am more the ‘You are damaged and only I can fix you’ type. I had to own up to this in myself to be able to stand back and see my part in my relationship with my ex. And to understand how arrogant that was on my part and how I fostered his dependency by staying around when his behavior was out of control, as if I was his therapist or mother and not his girlfriend.

    This did a great disservice to him and to me, as our relationship was never one of equals, more of the damaged out of control child and the wiser adult.

    Tom, you are still talking about the bad things she did to you, basically badmouthing her, while it bothers you that she is doing this to you, and you are still seeing yourself as helpless.

    I say this not to be mean, but to get you to stand back and see how you look at yourself, which is ‘after all I did for her!’.

    I understand this, as I did it too, but you have to pull yourself back and see that you were trying to manipulate her by doing all these things for her, just as she was trying to manipulate you, but she was better at it.


    ‘…4) BOUNDARIES, BOUNDARIES, BOUNDARIES—Getting too close, too fast…Or she has roommate troubles and could she stay at your place “temporarily” after only knowing you a month…This is evidence that she has poor or zero boundaries and it only goes downhill from here…’

  183. Tom:


    Read the comments at the bottom of the page from the shrink and the man:

    ‘…She’ll find someone else to get sympathy from. BPDs know how to find “a port in the storm.” They’re very skillful at getting others to take care of them and clean up their messes. Don’t be one of these people who do so. It’s draining, it’s toxic and it never ends…’

  184. A year ago my high school best friend and I found each other on FB after a 30 year absence…which didn’t end well back then either. She went into a rage that I didn’t understand – at the time. Nevertheless, time healed wounds and we tried to ‘find’ each other. Then Facebook helped that situation and our rekindled friendship was a whirlwind. The first 4 months were honeymoon-ish. Getting to know each other again, picking up where we left off after 30 years, I mean, what friendship can do that? Apparently we did and it was a great time. More laughs than we knew what to do with. Until… her put downs of me, embarrassing me on my FB page, all the while saying repeatedly “I see life in black and white” and “I can be quite mean.” Which back then, ALL went over my head. We continued to grow closer via messaging/phone calls. However we started to get into small skirmishes which quickly ended by her saying “Leave it alone, move on”. Meanwhile, I’m still upset over the said incident. So my resentment level is starting to accumulate and ultimately rise. Weeks later, another incident which left me declaring “Damned if I do and damned if I don’t!!” and a new rage outburst whereby she started with “You think I’m stupid..” Now 6 month into the friendship, the behavior and our outcomes are still not registering…until one day I couldn’t make sense anymore of this friendship, yet I still very much cared for my long-time friend…I ‘Googled’ “Black and white thinking”. I remember just sitting there with my hand over my mouth, and the tears welled in my eyes as the search results appeared on my screen. I was in shock on one hand yet relieved as there was now SOMETHING assigned – naming it BPD, a disorder I never hear of and yet my friend displayed many if not all of the characteristics. I read about BPD on almost a daily basis: what is it, causes, how it affects them, and what I as a non-BPD can do, should do, and what I should not do or say. For days, weeks and months I tried to educate myself on this, while NOT telling my friend what I have found. I learned in the first day of research that I would NEVER EVER tell her “oh I found an article on BPD and I think…” NEVER say this to anyone who you suspect as BPD, even if you mean well and you want to help them. If anything keep it to yourself, and EDUCATE yourself. I had read as much as any non-BPD would imagine reading. This website: http://showard76.wordpress.com/borderline-personality-disorder/ was especially helpful as it is written from a BPD perspective. I found myself being a better friend to her asking her by asking “Do you want me to just listen to you or do you want me to offer advice?” and I saw myself validating her more and more than I EVER did. We were actually doing better at this point. Unfortunately my story does not have a happy ending. We continued our friendship and just this past week, it ended. Apparently the sentence “We need to talk” set her off. I found out only yesterday that this sentence will automatically put a BPD into the ‘grey’ area, which they don’t have a capacity for and they see it as a challenge and reinforces their limits of I’m not good. My point is this: As a Non BPD is it a process of learning as you go, taking in advice and learning about BPD from it’s myriad of sources, and applying them into real life, real time situations. I can’t stress enough the real life, real time, because as we ALL have our emotions, values and boundaries. When she raged at me that I was not worthy of being spoken to about our problems (‘because I hate being friends with women’ and ‘you don’t “get” me’..which I do because I know about BPD but you don’t know that because I DO CARE enough not to hurt YOU).., I knew she crossed a line. Controlling communications is the huge hot spot for BPDs. I realized that I had done what I could for this friendship. I had gone as far as I could go. And I let my emotions get out of control and I told her “there is nothing more I could offer you.” I realized only hours late, that I did the unthinkable: I reinforced her fear of abandonment. Her msg to me was loaded with the atypical “Me, me, me, and what I need to take care of”..then it was peppered with ‘No I don’t hate you, in fact you have many good qualities, etc.’ She ended with “I wish you the best.” My response was very tactful without accusing, no pronouns, and I likewise, wished her the best. Within 10 minutes of sending it, I unfriended her on FB. Was I angry? Yes. Angry at myself for failing to put into practice all that I learned. Angry that realizing that ‘love sometimes just ain’t enough’ (a typical BPD sentiment noted on MANY BPD sites/blogs). Am I disappointed? Not as much as I was a few days ago, because I can process failure and learn. I’m STILL learning about BPD because I want to know more about what drove this otherwise laugh my ass off friendship to it’s brink… meaning what could I have done differently? I know the onus is on me, because I know she cannot relate to the world without having a full-body anger screen in front of her, whereby all filters through. I’ve come a long way – from not knowing what BPD is to knowing what it is and navigating the minefield in her mind – and I know I still have more to learn. Our 30th High School reunion is a scant 3 months away and we both may be in attendance. Beyond the first sentences, I know that further validation on my part may include “I care, I value you and, I DO get you ….I know you are in pain.”

  185. so to the ones who dont have BPD u have NO clue what its like day to day many times a day we struggle we do our best and thats all we can do if u cant handle bpd people then polietly fuck off because for me i know i dont drill holes not on purpose anyways im more senseative then anything and i shut down yes i get the rage but i take it out by venting outloud n people who HAVE hearts and not all about the stigma of BPD are the ones who are truely human…the ones ranting about how bad we are stay the fuk off our support networks

  186. I’m a man who had a BPD girlfriend in her fifties. Let’s all get one thing straight about this “dealing” with the guilt and repercussions of these relationships. These people can control their behavior. Virtually every relationship starts perfectly normally, and the first rage may not come for a year or so. They wait, very carefully to spring it on you, after your are thoroughly “hooked in” to them. This is how calculating they are, because they want to scream and make you feel miserable, but they also don’t want you to leave!

    The other thing is that they are experts in manipulating the situation. I talked her into therapy after two years of increasing rages. She went for four months and she was still raging. I finally went to see her therapist on my own and she had never heard of any anger episodes! Four months of talking, and she never discussed the weekly psychotic meltdowns.

    This was when I threw in the towel, and left her. This thing is hard enough when the patient is fully aware of their condition and taking all necessary steps to actually get better. Without that, staying, is an exercise in self flagellation. I have one life to live, and it might me nice to actually be loved in return.

  187. ‘…This is how calculating they are, because they want to scream and make you feel miserable, but they also don’t want you to leave!…’

    Peter, what BPDs do is to constantly test people who care for them until they finally cannot take any more abuse and leave. The BPD then tells themselves that they knew the person would abandon them all along, without any awareness that they push everyone away.

    It is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

    They do not know that is what they are doing though, as their fear of abandonment is so overwhelming that they cannot think rationally, they just strike out and anyone and anything around them.

    The post right above yours from a BPD is typical and not the only one on this blog where a BPD says things like ‘Maybe the problem is you are too weak to deal with the truth’ or ‘I didn’t mean to do or say those things’, as if not meaning to do or say something is somehow the same as not doing or saying it.

    That is why the never apologize and wallow in self pity, without the realization that not being remorseful for unacceptable behavior means that the person will never change. Why should they, when nothing is their fault?

    My ex is a BPD and I love him dearly, but I am fine with never seeing or speaking to him again. He is not in therapy and refuses to own up to his problems and the fact that this has left him alone, with no relationship and no friends only makes him more determined that the problem is everyone else.

    It is sad beyond belief, but the only person you can change is yourself and BPDs are rarely willing to put the effort into doing so. Instead, they fight to get the world to change to suit them, with the inevitable result of isolation and loneliness.

  188. So, I found this blog after Googling my sister various outrageous behavioral traits
    I’m still not sure she has BPD because she doesn’t self harm or threaten to kill or hurt anyone. Nor does she use alcohol or drugs.

    However, there are many things she does do. Ever since she was 12 she has manipulated our parents with her tantrums, neediness and general black moods if things didn’t quite go the way she had hoped/expected. She became the most given into person in the family, just to avoid conflicts.

    She went from a fun loving, extremely popular girl, to saying that no one liked her, she had no friends and she hated everyone anyway, so good riddance.

    Skip a few years forward, and when she was approx 19 years old she had the whole family walking on egg shells to keep the peace. There were day on end where we would all be treated like garbage, called names we wouldn’t dream of repeating. Days and day of black depression and raging, sobbing, screaming, running away from my parents home, only to come back hours later, when my mother had almost had a panic attack and dreaded the worst.

    Then as suddenly as they had arrived, the mood or rage would pass and she would be her sweet self again. But the next mood swing wasn’t far off, and could start at any given time – even when we were all laughing and having fun.

    I believe that she is able to control the when and where she has her tantrums and also who witnesses them. Not one of her friends or people she is trying to impress have ever seen anything but the sweet person she can be. She is highly intelligent and very well liked by everyone, because when she is stable, she is a really cool chick.

    On a few occasions she has slammed doors so hard that they’ve broken. So I guess certain aspects of harming property is there

    She also has a knack of having one of these dark episodes every time we have a family gathering, birthdays, Christmas gatherings etc. It ruins any family quality time we try to have.

    My parents still enable the behaviour by allowing her to behave in this manner in their house, even though she has rounded the age of 30 and lives in her own house.

    She is extremely dependent on them, and spends as much time as possible with my parents, which is worrying because she doesn’t hold down full time employment. She isn’t able to do anything For herself, just expects everyone around her to do everything for her.

    She has for many years had a problem with boundaries. Not knowing that she’s gone too far. She has no understanding of personal space or when not to say something she is thinking. This can be very embarrassing as it can at times be of a sexual nature, and not just all appropriate.

    Lastly, it seems that she has abandonment issues. When she is interested in someone, she tries to push herself on them. Almost displaying stalker like tendencies. She will constantly contact the person, trying to get together. If he says no thanks to one suggestion, she suggests a different activity, ultimately driving any normal person by due to sheer suffocation.
    Every time she looses a love interest, all men are pure scum, a@sholes etc.

    My parents thought it might be depression, anxiety disorder, bipolar disorder or pure selfishness without any mental disorder.
    She has been on meds for most all of that, on come off. Also on mood enhancers and stabilisers. But nothing seems to help. She visits her therapist weekly and she took her off all meds, claiming there is nothing wrong with her!
    I’m not so convinced, everything with her is either black or white. Good or bad. Overly happy (almost manically to) or sad or angry,again to the other extreme. She does however apologise at times. If she has really really caused a horrific mess, she may do a group apology by text or possibly one on one. But of course the apology isn’t long lived, and soon life is back to its highs and low lows.

    Does this sound like anything any of you have experienced?

    thanks for any and all suggestions.

    1. Hi Anonymous,

      Thanks for sharing your story and concerns. It’s hard to speculate on what you sister has without knowing medications she has been on, her personal history (ie, any abuse), and her day to day thoughts.

      Usually there is an underlying depression or bipolar chemical problem. In my case, it is a tendency to be depressed. Others will report rapid cycling – ie manic highs and awful lows – which is characteristic of bipolar. There are meds to stabilize and treat these conditions, but they are only part of the solution.

      She needs weekly, perhaps twice weekly therapy plus a support group. A good therapist will help identify what personality disorder she has. It could be any of the following, or some combination of the following: NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder), BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder), HPD (Histrionic Personality disorder, or APD (Antisocial Personality Disorder). Here is a good link: PyschCentral.com Personality Disorders.

      Bear in mind these definitions come from American Psychology diagnostic guides. Your writing style reads like something influenced by British English, so European diagnostic criteria might be different.

      Honestly, at her age (30), it can’t be your parents’ problem any more. If she were still in elementary, high school, or college I would say the family should be prepared to help. However 30 years old is a different story. At some point she needs to become independent and not burden your aging parents as they approach retirement.

      It might not be her fault that she’s suffering in this way, but ultimately she has to get help. Reinforce every small victory (ie, going to therapy more often, maintaining calm, keeping family occasions civil) and also make it clear when she’s crossed the line. She won’t understand boundaries unless the people around her set them firmly.

      Good luck and feel free to read what others advise.

  189. Thanks for your advice and input

    You’re right, my parents are too old for this. I think it’s time to put some boundaries in place and get her to start going to a good therapist.

    Thanks, I’ll keep reading and listening 🙂

  190. To BPD, i liked parts when about you trying to control self.

    But people not seeking treatment, you are criminals to me. I lose everything everything with a bpd. I have smoking problem doesn’t mean I blow smoke in your face. You have angry problem doesn’t mean you can be angry in my face! No excuses bring sick! Fix it now and no more excuses!

  191. Here is my experience to the world on how i got my love back and saved my marriage. I really love Louis so much that i can not even do without. I was married for 7years with 2kids and we lived happily until things started getting ugly and we had fights and arguments almost every time… it got worse at a point that he filed for divorce… I tried my best to make him change his mind & stay with me because i loved him with all my heart and didn’t want to lose him but everything just didn’t work out… He moved out of the house and still went ahead to file for divorce… I pleaded, cried and tried everything but still nothing worked. The breakthrough came when someone introduced me to this wonderful man who eventually helped me out with spell… I have never been a fan of things like this but just decided to try reluctantly because I was desperate and left with no choice… He did special prayers and used herbs… Within two days he called me and was sorry for all the emotional trauma he had cost me, moved back to the house and we continue to live happily, the kids are happy too and we are expecting our third child. I have introduced him to a lot of couples with problems across the world and they have had good news… Just thought I should spread my experience cause I strongly believe someone out there need’s it… NOTE THAT he will ask you to pay a small token amount of money to get the materials to work for you. You can email DR SANJAY via (sanjaylandofsolution606@gmail . com) Don’t give up just yet, the different between “Ordinary” & “Extra-Ordinary” is the “Extra” so make extra effort to save your marriage/relationship if it’s truly worth it.

  192. Thank you for writing this… Im currently involved with a full blown bpd… 15 years of friendship since Hs till now… In the past 8 months I have experienced emotional pain so bad there are words that can possibly describe. It wasn’t until a couple weeks ago after one of his episode when I cried in so much agony and pain asking God in my mind what I have done to deserve this pain that no human should ever have to experience… a few days later I was googling to research about verbal abuse, selfishness, communication etc. and stumbled upon Bpd. It was an oh my god moment and tears werwere just started pouring from my eyes….it’s a very long story.. I was hoping if you don’t mind, if I can contact you to seek advice… There is no doubt he is 1000000% bpd. It has gotten so bad that I have to cut myself to try and ease the emotional pain he put me through. Death would have been a relief. Tonight was another episode. I’ve known him 15 years total since I was 15… We were good friends… after HS we didn’t see or talk to each too often.. but have always kept in touch… 8 months ago we reconnected again as we have been in the past 15 years… and my love for him as a friend has given me strength to endure emotional pain I didn’t know existed… Words can’t come close to describing… Please let me know if you don’t mind hearing/reading my situation and give me some advice… I believe God brought him back in my life at that time for a reason… To help him… but I can’t endure anymore… i truly have no strength left… Im afraid I might seriously drive my car down a cliff. Please let me know if I can contact you, thank you

  193. Great. Two postings, one spam, the other also seems to be spam.

    Desperate need of emotional support: If you cut yourself, you are the Borderline and you are the one causing all this chaos, so get yourself to a shrink.

  194. Hi, I am in a 5 yr relationship with my BF who has BPD. When we first started dating, I thought he had Aspergers or was mildly autistic. Hes a good looking guy, but has severe social issues. We both have a history of childhood abuse which brought us together. Initially, I thought his odd behavior was just due to him being a “spoiled” only child. Lo & behold, I found out he also was a valium & caffeine addict right after he moved in with me (1 yr after we started dating) and that he threw tantrums. Adult tantrums, something Id never seen or heard of before. The first time he yelled & cussed me out during a fight, I almost fainted, I have never heard or had anyone in my life call me such terrrible terrible things with such hatred and hed actually get so worked up he would spit at me. The tantrums then escalated to him throwing things at me/breaking things, both his possessions then mine. Then he began chasing me during arguments with the intent to hurt and then the physical abuse started. He has beaten my arms and upper back more times than I can remember, punched me in the stomach once, slapped my glasses off my face 4 times (broken them to pieces), & thrown me into the wall 3 times. Im claustrophobic & he knows this and he has blocked me from exiting from the apartment several times when Ive tried to escape during a fight. The worst of it is that he has choked me with his arm across my neck, cut off my air 3 times and sat on me once when he did it. I was absolutely terrified (and still am) and he has left me with terrible emotional scars and trauma. I believe the only way I am still alive is that I moved to another apartment when I went back to grad school (I left him in my old apartment, even tho the lease is still in my name). Now that we don’t live together, I thought he might begin to miss me, maybe change his behavior and we could have a relationship again. Nope, he still argues/blames me/calls me names over the phone & says Ive abandoned him, even tho I see him weekly. When we do see each other in person, (I visit him, he never seems to want to visit me) the same behavior happens. This is fine with me since I can just walk out and go home when he acts out. My purpose in telling you this, you as a male with BPD, is that I really did love him. I stayed with him for years trying to adjust to his behaviors. But his behaviors started to bring out the worst in me even tho I knew he was ill. We nonBPDs really try to understand and adjust to our loved BPDs, but sometimes the behavior is just too much for us. As I said, I think if I lived with him any longer, I would have ended up with a severe injury or might even had been killed. Telling nonBPDS how to deal with BPD is not the answer. It is up to the BPDs to get therapy and medications to control their behaviors. We nonBPDS are helpless in a relationship. I realize this is a mental illness, beyond your control. I get it, I really do. But please get the therapy and meds to help us nonBPDS be able to get close enough to love you again. And to the nonBPds reading this, remember it’s not your fault. Your life is more important than the relationship and leave when it gets too much or you will get hurt.

  195. My fiancé of 2 years moved into my home and we continued a journey toward what I thought was going to be a happy ending. We had an outstanding relationship with much in common and truly enjoyed being with one another – we never argued or had disagreements. What occurred just 3 weeks after her moving in had happened in the past several times, but with exponentially greater intensity and inflictment of pain.

    While on a business trip, I received a text from her from completely out of the blue (there was no incident or episode) that ‘our relationship is over, I have moved out….don’t try to contact me’. I attempted to call and text her but she had blocked me from contact. I tried to call family and friends to another text of a threat to call the police if I did so again.

    I figured that she needed a couple of days or weeks to collect herself before she could speak through whatever problems she was experiencing in our relationship. I called from a hotel on another business trip and sent a couple of ‘lets talk’ emails. This was met with a threat to file a restraining order from a lawyer friend of hers if I attempted to contact her again. She blocked me on all social media and even went as far as to compel mutual friends and her family members to do the same (I treated her VERY well so I can only imagine what she has told these people to incite their ire in this way). It was very hurtful and confusing to my young daughter (who came to love her and regard her as a step parent already) and I. I attempted to send her a letter at work (I have no idea to where she has moved) several weeks ago and it was returned ‘refused’ and unopened.

    As a way of helping to understand the episode, I began to try to research what had occurred here on the web. All fingers seemed to point to her behavior as being caused by her being raised in an alcoholic environment. It seemed to make a lot of sense until I came across several articles on BP which seem to be even more consistent with what had occurred; the abrupt exit, the cyclical nature of it, the sudden and non-corresponding hatred and intense anger, enjoining law enforcement and threats to distance themselves, etc. In most of the case studies that I have read so far, they all seem to have a pattern very similar to the one above.

    I am looking for some guidance here from those that might have had a similar experience or are BP themselves- open speculation is ok as well. The crazy thing here is that I fell deeply in love with her, and while I feel that it would be not terribly difficult to replace her, that she was THE one and I am having a hard time letting go. I am a the type of person who avoids giving up on things easily and is prepared to fight for the things that are important – I think that this is one of them.
    First and foremost, is she ok? What is she feeling? What is she telling people? What is her intention? Should I go after her? What is the likely reaction if I do? Should I wait? Should I write her off as a casualty? Is it ACOA or BP?

    1. Hi JRT and NM,

      Thanks for your comment and NM for your input as usual. NM’s thoughts are right on this: the only person who can help a BPD, NPD, or HPD is themselves. They must decide to see a doctor, start lengthy treatment and perhaps join a DBT group.

      I recently heard a similar story from another man regarding his wife. He was considering getting a divorce. His wife sounded like a classic case of BPD. Ultimately, I told him there is little he can do: it is her responsibility to get better. If she doesn’t, it is indeed a lost cause. He will be miserable for the rest of his life if he stays.

      I have been in treatment for more than 10 years now. I’m at a point where I can recognize how my past behavior affected others. When I hear stories from others about the BPD individuals in their lives, I painfully tell them to either get their partner into treatment or move on. I wouldn’t want someone to leave me, however I now also understand keeping someone around on my terms using manipulative ploys is tantamount to abuse.

      If she started work tomorrow, she might “get it” in 10 years, but that is too long for you to wait. Don’t even think about offering that commitment (ie.”I’ll wait for you while you’re doing time”). It is better to leave for your own sanity.

      While I’m not 100% treated, I can say that my work has led me to a better place. I *might* be ready to start dating again very cautiously. That development is the result of many years of difficult work.

      The sad fact is that the BPD is the only person who can make themselves better.

  196. JRT:

    1. ‘First and foremost, is she ok?’ She is as okay as a Borderline not under treatment ever gets, which is not very good and there is nothing you can do to change that. It does not mean that you will not worry, but there is nothing you can do to help her.

    2. ‘What is she feeling?’ She is feeling abandoned, as you went away on a business trip, but BPDs cannot deal with any time alone and cannot keep things in proportion. As soon as you leave them, even for a few hours, they cannot remember what it feels like when you are there.

    3. ‘What is she telling people?’ She is telling people that you used her, betrayed her, took advantage of her, abused her, never loved her, she is a victim…on and on. That it has no basis in reality will only be clear to people who do not know her. There is nothing you can do about this.

    4. ‘What is her intention?’ Her intention is to bring the chaos inside of her head to the people around her, including you, her family, coworkers, the police, the courts…the more drama, the better she will feel, as it gets everyone’s focus on her.

    5. ‘Should I go after her?’ Not unless you want to get arrested.

    6. ‘What is the likely reaction if I do?’ She will contact the police to get attention. You will be arrested, as they will believe every word she says, as BPDs can play the victim very well as they believe it themselves.

    7. ‘Should I wait?’ If you want more of the same, then go ahead and wait, but she will not change, as BPDs do not change unless they are in serious therapy for many years. But since therapy requires the patient to accept responsibility for their behavior, few BPDs will stay the course.

    8. ‘Should I write her off as a casualty?’ Yes. Feel lucky that you did not try and try some more and lose ten years of your life.

    9. ‘Is it ACOA or BP?’ The drama making sounds like BPD, but you did not mention the other symptoms, self harm, substance abuse, promiscuity, so forth, so could be NPD. Whatever it is, you cannot fix it. That is heartbreaking, as I well know, but nothing you do will make any difference and, worse, the more understanding you are to a BPD, the more contemptuous they are towards you. They are not stupid and know that anyone who would tolerate their abuse deserves contempt, so they only admire people who are as abusive as they are. In other words, people with personality disorders are only compatible with other people with personality disorders.

    Good luck. You got off easy.

  197. Hi all,

    I came across this forum last night when I was searching for an online support group for BPD sufferers.

    I understand it’s incredibly difficult for all those living with Those who have BPD but some of the comments left on here are beyond disgusting. Telling those to kill themselves, calling them satanic and that they don’t deserve to have relationships is a form of bullying. They are disgusting things to say to anyone whether they suffer a mental illness or not. I would much prefer to be a BPD than a bully.

    The most supportive non BPDs here seem to be family members. To all those who entered into a relationship with someone with BPD, I’m sorry that it was incredibly difficult but it is highly unfair to criticise everyone with BPD.
    I was incredibly upset when I read this because I felt it demeaned everyone who has this illness.

    My psychiatrist explained to me that those with BPD have a brain abnormality and are NOT able to control their emotions.

    Personally, I know I can suffer from irreversible rage and say incredibly hurtful things to those around me so when I suffer an outburst I remove myself from the situation and stay away from those who aggravate it until I feel better. This, for me, is the best way of controlling my behaviour.

    I have personally chosen not to enter into a relationship until I am further along my BPD treatment, until I am able to enter a healthy relationship. However a point that was explained to me by a psychiatrist is that a lot of BPD sufferers enter into relationships with non suitable people, such as co/dependants and manipulators. So for all those who have had a relationship with BPDs, look in the mirror before you come along and slag and berate BPD sufferers.

  198. Thanks for the comments friends. I suppose that I am looking for hope where, perhaps, there is none. A couple of things that I might add to this that may or may not change your opinions:

    -the legal threat, I think, might only be a red herring. Her son had just got a clerk job at the law firm that threatened me. I am sure that the evolution of this was that she was moaning at home and he asked if they could do this for them pro bono. It was more of a action of opportunity than a real threat. (My lawyer said that a judge given my circumstances would never sign an order for a PPO).

    -unlike many of the stories that I have read, I had two VERY good years with her and was VERY happy with our relationship. Granted, she clearly kept many things inside and never worked out conflicts and this was what contributed to bliss (at least in my mind). But even when she was not internally ruminating, I saw that she was also content. Take away the breaking up and I would be VERY content.

    Does this change your perspectives at all?

  199. Are you of the opinion that my leaving out of town on business was the trigger that caused all this? What if it was the case that it was certainly not the first time that I went out of town? Although, in the same breath, it WAS the first time that I went out of town and she was living with me. This meant that for the first time, she would have been ENTIRELY alone (her son had recently moved to his dad’s). I guess I never really considered that before. Sound right?

    Almost forgot to mention: no other aberrant sort of behavior: no self mutilation, fixation with sex, unusual sexual proclivities, no drugs or alcohol abuse, no over eating (though she did have an unusual interest in food overall I thought – eating and eating out was sort of a hobby and her only real interest), nothing.

    She was very introspective at times and kept her innermost thoughts private and told lies on occasion about things that didn’t really matter to others. She also had a very contentious relationship with her 17 year old son, and (although I NEVER told her this) was an abject failure as a parent. Her son is an entirely different topic.

  200. JRT:

    ‘I had two VERY good years with her and was VERY happy with our relationship.’

    But you didn’t live with her and you don’t really know a person until you live with them.

    This is true for everyone, not just for people with a personality disorder.

    It is very east to keep up a façade when you only see someone a few times a week, as you always show your best face and hide your worst, even if it is not a conscious deception.

    She threatened you with legal action. It does not matter if that was a fake threat or a real threat, it was an attempt to control you and/or destroy you and that alone should be a red flag to anyone who is not equally troubled.

    MY ex-BPD, who was in many ways a remarkable and lovable person, was at one time involved with an NPD. They were actually a better match than he and I were, as the chaos and drama were the basis of their relationship and they both thrived on it.

    Whereas it was exhausting to me and only made me pull away from him, which caused more drama, and on and on.

    An example of the drama he engaged it with his next girlfriend (he is 40, she is 50, so not teenagers) was that within the first two months of their relationship, she called the police on him for abuse, which meant he had to get involved with the police, while the two of them tired to pull everyone they knew into their theatrics. (Including me, but no fool I.)

    After a month of this, they got back together and went off to a music festival where they camped out in high style (it is called ‘glamping’) and spent so much time screaming at each other that the other campers had to call security on them, just to get any sleep.

    The outcome of that miserable weekend was that they decided to get married, I kid you not, so she quit her job (at 50!) and moved in with him.

    Within four months the police had been called to break up physical altercations or screaming matches, until she moved out and took a restraining order out on him, so he took one out on her too.

    That is what it is like to live with someone with a personality disorder, so best ask yourself if that is what you want your future to be like.

    I do not hate people with BPD, as most have many fine qualities, but they need to fix the damaged parts which requires taking responsibility for unacceptable behavior with no justifications. No ‘you made me’ or ‘I was tired’ or any other rationalizations.

    No one changes if they always see themselves as the victim, as that means there is nothing they themselves need to change, the problem is everyone else.

    And having that attitude is how a person winds up all alone.

  201. Katie:

    ‘They are disgusting things to say to anyone whether they suffer a mental illness or not…I can suffer from irreversible rage and say incredibly hurtful things to those around me.’

    People say mean things when they are angry and anyone who has been in a relationship with Borderline has good reason to be angry, so no Borderline is in any position to get up on their high horse about people saying harsh things in anger.

    Borderlines can dish it out, but they can’t take it, because they believe that only *their* anger is justified, not anyone else’s. As soon as the feel the brunt of the other person’s anger, anger that they brought upon themselves with their cruelty and abuse, they play victim.

    ‘I would much prefer to be a BPD than a bully.’

    BPDs *are* bullies, so best not to be pointing fingers.

    ‘My psychiatrist explained to me that those with BPD have a brain abnormality and are NOT able to control their emotions.’

    None of us can control our emotions, but most of us learn as children to control our behavior as part of an important social skill, else we will be alone. And BPDs can indeed control their behavior when they want something bad enough, which is why much of the worst behavior is hidden in the first few months of a relationship.

    ‘So for all those who have had a relationship with BPDs, look in the mirror before you come along and slag and berate BPD sufferers.’

    I totally agree. Anyone who has been involved with a Borderline has to ask themselves what they were getting out of it, as only then will they be certain that they will avoid being in the same kind of relationship in the future or, worse, get pulled back into the same toxic relationship.

  202. I don’t think you’re qualified to tell me anything but your opinion is your opinion. You were in a relationship with ONE person with BPD, what gives you the right to tarnish everyone with the same brush? Yeah people with BDP can be bullies but you also have a bit of a bullying streak in you clearly, NM.

  203. This is a forum for those who suffer from BDP. Go do your trolling somewhere else. My mother (who suffers no mental illness) is of the opinion that those who spend their time trolling online and putting others down clearly have something mentally wrong with them.

  204. Everyone:

    I hope this otherwise productive thread doesn’t devolve into mudslinging.

    BPD is a complicated knot to unravel.

    Did I give myself BPD? Not entirely: there are genetic and environmental factors that contributed (see rest of blog).

    Ultimately, the cruel reality of BPD is that only the BPD can help themselves. I sincerely wish I could hold those who hurt me accountable, therefore curing myself of my mental illness. But that isn’t how it works. That thinking is part of the BPD mindset.

    I urge anyone with this painful affliction to continue seeking as much help as possible. I am also Type 1 Diabetic, and must wear an insulin pump and check my blood sugar for the rest of my life. It is a day-to-day slog, just like BPD.

    Getting out of the darkness of BPD requires a lot of maintenance work, tune-ups, and continual attempts to challenge oneself.

    I wish it was easier, but it isn’t. I can’t exact revenge against others for the mere fact that life isn’t fair; and that I got dealt a bad hand.

  205. I came upon this page as I was looking for advice on dealing with this disorder and was hoping to speak to like minded people while I’m waiting for my DBT treatment to begin.

    As I stated before, when I have one of my “episodes” I don’t lash out at people, but rather retreat inside myself and lock myself away for days.

    Instead of saying hurtful things to my loved ones which can cause irreparable harm I find it best to tell them I need some time to myself until I calm down, I know my behaviour is irrational but when it’s that heightened it’s impossible to control so removing yourself from the situation is the best idea.

    I’m graduating this year with a law degree and I know right from wrong. I’m not a victim, this is no ones fault, it’s just one of these shit things that happen. I don’t want to be like this, I don’t want to go into these deep depressions but all I can do is seek treatment. My outbursts are targeted at myself more so than others.

    I think it is wrong that people come on here and generalise every single person with the disorder. Some people may have had experience with one person who had it, but that doesn’t mean everyone that has BPD is the same and should be tarred with the same brush.

    I think it’s hypocritcal that some one can say that ALL BPD sufferers are bullies. I would NEVER tell someone to go and kill themselves, ever. I think that behaviour is deplorable and the audacity then that I should be told to get down off my horse and someone should be allowed say this to me is unacceptable. That, is trolling and against the law.

    I googled this site for support but that’s not what’s given on here. For the people who have gotten out of relationships with people that had BPD, you’re free. Why are you spending your time googling a website about people that you clearly hate and putting down others that have nothing to do with you?

    1. For the people who have gotten out of relationships with people that had BPD, you’re free. Why are you spending your time googling a website about people that you clearly hate and putting down others that have nothing to do with you?

      Hi Katie,

      That is a fair question. I think some people have experienced a lot of suffering at the hands of their BPD partners. As you wrote, the rage and depression can also be directed inward. My own instances of self abuse were greater than my rages. I would cut and burn my skin for relief (a few scars exist many years later). Sadly, the only thing others noticed was my anger, and by then I was past nipping this affliction in the bud.

      Others might have experienced BPDs who directed most/all of their rage outward. Naturally, they’re not happy about it: they too must distance themselves and recover.

      I keep the dialogue open to hear both sides of the story. There are many supportive and open minded commenters who have thoughtful perspectives to share (see also other pages).

      The bully comment is frustrating because people neither want to be bullied, nor considered a bully. I think some people with BPD can be bullies, but that doesn’t mean they are always that way or mostly abusive people. I worry more about NPDs, psychopaths, sociopaths, and people who bully that consider themselves perfectly normal. Eventually in the course of your treatment, you will reach a point of accountability where *some* (not all) of your behavior is problematic, and realize how to minimize it in the future.

  206. @231
    But we DID live together….for the past year and a half at least, she came to my house after work but slept at her house. She was her all of the weekend. Although clearly, she DID keep up a façade. In retrospect, I can see clearly what was behind it. And yes, her lawyer letter was clearly an exercise of what she believes to be power.
    Crazy story with your ex. Did his relationship end finally? Mine did not act out, she acted in. I believe that her flavor of BPD is referred to as a ‘waif’. Sweet and dainty, but explosive in rage that happened infrequently (like 236 here). I used to say that she didn’t fight to win, but rather to kill.

  207. Thanks for the insightful input, JRT. However, that is not one of my rages. As I have previously and repeatedly stated, my rages are very self destructive and I’m not going to be to self destruct because of two unqualified people who think they know it all sitting behind a computer screen. I have both more sense and control than that.

    You wanted to know why your fiancé left. Well without being vindictive, I think it’s obvious. You critized her parenting skills and called her a bad parent. While you may not have said this directly to her, you could have said it to mutual friends and it somehow had gotten back. Something like that is unforgivable. But if she’s such a bad parent why would you want to be with her?

  208. Huh? I never criticized her parenting skills at all. Matter of fact, I tried to compliment her for doing what she did on her own…and that her son was fundamentally a good kid. I never aired out any other thoughts to anyone else to the contrary…..

  209. I am in the process of getting over a man with BPD. At least I think that’s what he has.

    He is 12 years older than me, 50 now but his age never bothered me. The relationship lasted for over a year. We had such chemistry from the beginning and we fell in love quickly. 6 weeks in our relationship we said we love each other. It was like crazy love, kissing for hours, talking about little nothings, how lucky we are, how we hope it will last forever… I felt high with him without using any drugs or alcohol. It was so intense with lots of passion. It’s so hard to find this kind of passion.

    There were lots of red flags from the very beginning, sudden anger over trivial things which resulted of him storming out of the door or driving away like a maniac. Then there was no conflict resolution; after he got mad he called, he texted usually sad and he was saying things like “im just an asshole for you, you should date other guys, im an idiot and not good enough for you…” I always tried to reason with him and tried to focus on the issue but it’s like he put on a wall and nothing got through. Then when we met again sometimes days later everything went back to normal for a while.

    He came out with me and my friends a few times but he looked like he felt awkward, many times he left early and I felt that I don’t have a partner. I thought well, he is more of a loner that is not a deal-breaker by itself. He is very sarcastic and funny, he offended many people with his humor and probably with his anger. He is functional, owns a shop and makes a decent living for himself. Very narcissistic, always talks about how he is the best, strongest, smartest, fastest, he always have to win, everything was a competition in his mind. He had a very tough upbringing with no stability at all.

    For one year we’ve never spent 24 hours together at once, it was some hours during the day and he always spent the night with me. In the beginning we met 3-4 times a week but then we had more arguments and I even told him that I feel like we cannot be together long because there is some kinds of drama always with him. It felt like riding a roller coaster and because of his mood changes, I never knew what I will get each time he called. Then he started seeing me less, like twice a week which at first was really hard for me, cutting back felt to me like going backwards. I guess he did it because he knew it’s not good to be together a lot. I believe he tried to control himself as long as he could and was careful me not finding out about how serious it is.

    For one year his anger did not really turned towards me it was more like dealing with a child. It’s like he was his own enemy and it felt like he is sabotaging our relationship with nonsense. Many times I was just standing there and didn’t understand where is this coming from, what had just happened. It was constant work to keep him happy with reassurance and compliments. On the other hand he did not like to give compliments at all.

    He never told me that he has any diagnosed problems, he told me that he knows he is “off” and people say he is crazy. He told me once that he went to some therapy but left it and now he is just working on himself because he doesn’t want to go off on people. At first I was thinking it’s Bipolar and asked him about it, but he said he is not bipolar.

    Then we went for a vacation together. I surprised him with the trip for his birthday so he could not say no. We were both looking forward the trip and I knew this will be a great test run for us. It was four days we spent together non stop.

    The first day and a half was awesome then the rages started. But now it was way worse than before because we were stuck together. The first rage was like the ones he had before, he got upset over some stupid thing and got out of the car and decided walking home which was 12 miles away. I tried to convince him by driving by him to get back in the car, tried to convince him that this is just silly but he rather walked 12 miles. He was in a rage.

    Then he calmed down somewhat and the second rage, the next day was worse. He got upset because we missed a turn turn, blamed me for it and started driving erratically on a curvy road while he was yelling with me that I told him that it is his fault. I never said it was his fault, then he started telling me how I cannot even navigate or do things right. This was the first time I was scared of him. His anger was towards me and we were locked in a car while he was driving like a maniac. He then stopped, got out of the car and started slamming the doors while he was screaming and yelling, people looked but nobody dared to say anything. I was shaking and crying did not understand what just happened then left him, I drove away. Later he calmed down and I picked him up (we were two hours away from our hotel) but we did not talk the whole way home.

    The last day of our trip was the same, he never truly calmed down from the previous day, I tried and tried to make peace and calm him down, I wanted to make this vacation nice. I was still chasing the dream, the first day that was so amazing with him. Made him breakfast and did stuff he likes but nothing was good enough anymore. Even if I did not say a word he was yelling with me, saying things that are not true, projecting himself on me. I felt like he hates me and I thought this is it. I was telling him that it is awful that I am about to break up with the love of my life and he told me that we don’t have to break up. After the way he was treating me I didn’t even understand that. Why would he want to be with someone he hates so much?

    He screamed and yelled at me, that all women went crazy on him, everyone wants to always fight with him, he is the good guy. I don’t treat him right, I need to get a dog, all I do is to use him and I am the most selfish person ever. He brought up everything that ever happened and twisted it the way that I became this awful person in his mind and he was the poor innocent victim who had the most awful upbringing. All his rages was my fault because if I could be just nicer then he wouldn’t have to yell with me. None of which was true so this time it didn’t hurt me as much, it was nonsense.

    I came from a strong family background, both parents very much present in my life, independent, can take care of myself, emotionally strong so it takes a lot to shake my confidence. In the one year we were dating many times I started feeling that maybe I did something wrong and I deserved that he got upset and I probably hurt his sensitive feelings. So I can see now if this type of treatment from the person we love can break someone who is strong, it could easily break someone who is weaker. You start to believe you are the crazy one.

    After the trip he tried to apologize but I didn’t talk to him and finally I told him in a text that we are completely over. All he said “it’s good to know” and since then I haven’t heard from him. It’s been two weeks. Before, when we had a fight he showed up at my work, or texted me a few days later but not this time.

    When I got home I was looking for answers online and I found this site. Now I am convinced that he has BPD and he might even knew it. I miss him a lot I still love him but I know he won’t go to therapy because he doesn’t think it’s that serious. He is trying to “work on himself” and probably I am now just another woman who went crazy on him.

    I know I cannot be with someone who treats me this way and not even trying to seek help. I ignored the warning signs thinking it’s his upbringing, he is a little nuts but it’s ok, I can deal, Im grounded enough for both of us until he really showed how he is.

    Very sad. Just wanted to share any input?

  210. Katie:

    ‘…That, is trolling and against the law…’

    Huh? Not sure why someone who is in law school would think that, but believe as you wish.

    That said, I can say that the reason that many people, including me, who have been involved with BPD partners have been traumatized by the relationship, as there they have been subjected to emotional and often physical abuse.

    People with personality disorders do not think that they behavior is bullying, but that is what it is, as is shown in many comments by BPDs when they feel ‘attacked when they lash out. They believe their comments are justified, but all that does is show that they cannot deal with any disagreement or different opinions.

    As to why non-BPDs might come here, I can only speak for myself.

    Many BPDs have made extraordinary progress in defeating their demons (the Admin here is one) and have advice and opinions that help others who are suffering.

    While I do not doubt that BPDs suffer terribly, they also cause great pain and heartache to those who love them. Forums like this can help people understand what happened, as the emotional chaos caused by a BPD can be like the aftermath of a hurricane.

    What BPD partners (or ex-partners) need to understand is that they *got* something out of the relationship. Not something good, but they got *something*, so they were part of the problem, it was not all the BPD.

    Accepting this is part of healing, as without that acceptance, it is easy to feel like a victim, which can lead a non-BPD to get into another similar dysfunctional relationship.

    It is freeing to accept your own responsibility, as it allows a non-BPD to step back and see both the good and bad in the BPD, not just the bad.

    But that takes time and distance and for many people who are suffering, BPDs and non-BPDs, a forum like this can be a lifesaver.

  211. JRT: ‘…But we DID live together….for the past year and a half at least, she came to my house after work but slept at her house. She was her all of the weekend…’

    JRT: Stopping by on the way home from work and then leaving or spending weekends together is *not* living together, as it is easy to be on your best behavior when you are well-rested, tougher to do so every single day.

    That has nothing to do with BPDs, just that you do not really know someone until you live with them full time, probably for at least a year.

    That is why so many relationships do not last much longer, after the couple moves in together, even if they have been dating for many years.

  212. Niki:

    Not sure how old you are, but most adults know that ‘such chemistry from the beginning’ is not a good basis for a relationship and that you do not know someone in six weeks.

    It is fine for a fling or an infatuation, but even if the person is not BPD, it should raise warning bells.

    BPDs are prone to raging and it might well be that he was careful not to be around you for any length of time because he knew he could not control it.

    But you forced the issue by making him go on a vacation with you, which is very controlling, no matter how you want to think about it. And no one likes that feeling, that they have been boxed in.

    In the end, it was probably for the best, as you got to see what he was trying to hide, but it is so sad, is it not?

    My ex-BPD is most likely alone and I am beyond sad and worried for him, but I cannot fix his problems, as no one can, but the person themselves.

    This is true for all of us, but having BPD is so painful that it is hard to understand why the sufferer would not try *anything* to get even a little better.

    My ex-BPD after being diagnosed, after insisting his psychiatrist tell him the diagnosis, left therapy, stopped all his medication, and started drinking and drugging to excess, so that I was waiting to hear he was dead. He emailed me with his diagnosis and asked me if I was happy that I was ‘correct’, as if I would take pleasure from ‘being right’, which is so far from the truth it shocked me.

    He joined the anti-psychiatry movement and I fear for him, as the suicide rate is high for untreated BPDs.

    What needs to be understood by non-BPDs is that you didn’t break it and you can’t fix it. I still offer my ex-BPD the hand of friendship, hoping that knowing even one person out there cares about him, but since BPDs are ‘all or nothing’, he will have none of it.

    ‘All or nothing’ almost always means ‘nothing’.

  213. JRT: ‘…Crazy story with your ex. Did his relationship end finally?…’

    Yes, his relationship ended with the police being called and all sorts of legal complications for him.

    NPDs and BPDs often do work out, in a weird way, as they are the only ones who see this kind of chaos as ‘normal’, acting out the emotional roller coasters inside their heads, whereas most people cannot deal with it.

    BPDs are often attracted to people they see as ‘strong’, but most people would see as plain mean. Basically, they distrust people who are good to them and trust people who are horrible to them, as they see kindness as weakness.

    I wish I could have helped him, as I know he did not behave this way intentionally, but he has to fix himself, as do we all.

    He simply could not control his emotions for any extended period of time and when they spiraled out of control, it terrified him and I was afraid for him. I still am afraid for him.

    So even though BPDs are maddening to be around, I also have great compassion for them.

  214. Your opinions are your opinions, NM. But I am also entitled to mine. Telling someone that you don’t kniw online to kill themselves is trolling, one doesn’t need to go to law school to figure that out.

    As I have repeatedly stated, you knew one person with BPD. Not every single person with BPD behaves the same, as like those who suffer from other disorders like anorexia. No two people are the same. And you are not qualified in anyway to tell me what I am or am not, since you’ve never met me nor are you a professional from having had a relationship with one person who had BPD.

    But good luck spending your time on a blog about BPD. It does really seem like you’ve moved on. And thank you for making me realise that I am better than to argue with a middle aged woman hiding behind a computer screen. Peace out!

  215. I am a bpd who has succeeded in overcoming my needs to use addictive substances, engage in high risk activities and refrain from cheating or using sexual encounters as a way to cope with the unbearable and typical bpd feelings. I feel as if the shame, guilt and self loathing that would come about after the aforementioned acts- was enough to make me stop and not want to repeat that cycle. I have periodically over thee years tried to use the previous coping mechanisms such as drugs or spending, etc but had zero relief which leaves the unrelenting pain to continue and it takes a very very long time to get any relief from the episode . The one and only thing that seems to abbrubtly stop the pain of my emotions and focus on something else, is violence. Violence stops the horrible electric shock-like energy from continuing and after the dust settles from the violent episode… I am left with new feelings that are awful but not nearly as horrible feeling. I then feel remorse, am humbled and within a few days recover from the episode and am reset to a more human and normal version of myself. The version that can make a living and take care of themselves and others. The social, funny and enlightening person that I like being. I know that the physical violence I exhibit is wrong, hurtful and at times very terrifying. When I am regulated I know my boundaries and would never dream of hurting another individual or disrespecting their belongings. I am fully against domestic violence but in my dis regulated state, breaking and throwing things, yelling and hitting others, banging my own head against walls and numerous other violent acts are how my body and mind are compelled to during extreme disregulation. I’ve heard of this before so it doesn’t surprise me that this is a bpd trait of tantrums, although I’ve read significantly less about the violence than any other coping mechanism. I know that having bpd makes you angry at yourself which is why we usually self harm instead if harming others… And this shows as I’m violent with myself and my own possessions as well as others, but how do I stop this?? I consider myself to be ever aware of things and have been string enough to overcome the other bpd ‘crutches’ so why can’t I stop? I’ve been careful over the past 6 months not to break any rules during fights, I sit on my hands as not to touch anything I can throw, and when I do touch something I push it out of my reach, then at the height of my rage with nothing to break, I hit the person in front of me. And sure ice give from punching to hitting to slapping. But it’s all horrible! I come from a home where violence was the way to show your feelings, but I didn’t and don’t agree with it, so I don’t understand why I can’t re-program myself not do do it. I’ve even contemplated trying drugs again after 10 years, or developing a shopping addiction or anorexia. They are quite arguably more attractive and less harmful to others. I have literally been told as much. Self harm, eating disorders and a number of other coping mechanisms do not generally get you in trouble with the law, but violence in any form surely will. I’m looking for help for myself as well as my loved ones who do not deserve to witness or be a casualty of this kind of behaviour. I am a caring, sweet and loving person with great morals and a want to help others. Bpd is awful, but the violence is unforgivable. It pains me so much to have this one terrible crutch ruin the rest of the good that I do the rest of the time that I’m a ‘normal’ helpful and caring emotionally regulated human being.

  216. Katie: ‘…Your opinions are your opinions, NM. But I am also entitled to mine. Telling someone that you don’t kniw online to kill themselves is trolling…’

    I never said that. Not sure why you think I did, but I assure you that it not true.

    ‘…As I have repeatedly stated, you knew one person with BPD…And you are not qualified in anyway to tell me what I am or am not, since you’ve never met me nor are you a professional from having had a relationship with one person who had BPD…’

    I have known more than one person with Borderline Personality Disorder, although I only talk about the last person, as before him I did not even realize BPD existed, so I did not recognize the symptoms and odd behaviors as having an understandable cause.

    You are the one who said you are a Borderline and I accepted that you were telling the truth. I certainly never diagnosed you nor have I diagnosed anyone else on this forum.

    ‘…And thank you for making me realise that I am better than to argue with a middle aged woman hiding behind a computer screen. Peace out!…’

    I am not sure why you think I am a middle-aged woman (or even a woman, for that matter), but your anger and paranoia comes through clearly, so best end our conversation now. Good luck.

  217. *yawn* if I was angry, I would bother with a retort. I’m not paranoid, you’re actually just boring me now. you can stop replying.

  218. Today, I had a crisis and I came here for some insight. It hurts to see such ugly and judgmental comments by people who claim to be ‘nons’. They say we sh*t on other people because they are arrogant and it makes then feel better than us so they’ll say anything just to elevate themselves as if they are saints. At the end of the day they are just nasty people who lack compassion.

    I’ve suffered with BPD for years and was finally diagnosed in 2014 while pregnant because it was the only time that I had access health insurance in the past decade.

    I was able to attend DBT for about 3 months but had to stop after the birth because I couldn’t bring my son with me to therapy and couldn’t afford to pay anyone to watch him during my sessions.

    Since then I’ve tried to keep the materials close at heart but things are getting worse. My partner said something disrespectful and it hurt my feelings today so I told him and then he invalidated me and so i tried to dispel my hurt and anger by cleaning the house. I tried to fight my feelings but everything got so heavy and all I could think was what have I done for him to hate me like this? I was brokenhearted & couldmy hold back the tears. I started crying but I didn’t want my son to see or hear me because he’s very emotionally attuned to me. I guess was trying to let off steam. But everything was so heavy that my skin literally felt like it was on fire. The pain was so intense that I became overwhelmed and couldn’t find a way to console myself. I remember screaming, pulling my hair out and kicking and the cops questioning me as I lay in tears on my closet floor. The entire thing was humiliating and surreal. All I could think was that I wished I would die so the pain would end.

    I lost control today and I don’t fully understand why. I hate everything about myself but I try to mask it as best I can because I don’t want my son to suffer – he’s the only person I live for. But yet in a rage, I lose touch with all reality.

    Because of my inability to regulate emotions I’ve been fired from nearly every job I’ve had for emotional outbursts. I dropped out of college due to a nervous breakdown and I’m default on my student loans because I can’t keep a job. I’m recently divorced after an abusive marriage that I found the courage to leave and now a second unplanned pregnancy on top of being mom to an 8month old.

    On the brighter side of things, my partner (father of both my children) is educated on BPD and has agreed to work with me. He apologized for the comment earlier and said we will have to work together to help me regulate when I’m emotionally overwhelmed. He injured that I’m a good mother and that I try to be a better person each day but the truth of my past is real. I can’t wish it away and it has made me who I am.

    I look forward to the tune I can return to DBT. For those of you who say, “geez get help!” I say back of unread you’re willing to help us pay for it. Not everyone is privileged enough to have access to the appropriate mental health provider.

    I’m without health insurance again and cannot afford therapy prenatal care or even basic healthcare though I want to get better. I will keep trying though because I have a baby due in July. That’s all.

    1. Hi D,

      Thank you for your comment and I’m very sorry to hear about your situation. BPD is a painful condition. It is compounded when you don’t have access to adequate healthcare. I’m happy to hear your partner is willing to help you as much as possible.

      Did you have a difficult relationship (or perhaps not “difficult”, but invalidating) with your mom or dad? Occasionally this can lay the groundwork for a BPD diagnosis, from the moment you were born. Perhaps you are sensitive to upsetting your children because you – in fact – are reliving feeling upset by your own parents when you were little. Just a thought worth exploring and might relieve some of the guilt and blame you’re placing on yourself.

      Without insurance, treatment is limited, but there are many free support groups available. If you’ve struggled with addiction and don’t mind the AA, NA, GA, etc “program”, these can be useful places to start. I would go for social support and structure. Some hardcore members might force you into the step process, but you’re entitled to find a program that is less restrictive in terms of the progression through any Anonymous treatment plan.

      Also, any “Meetup” style group therapy would be helpful, including free outpatient study groups at local universities. A lot of younger, hungry Phds run these groups and are eager to help people. Yourself, your kids come first.

  219. I dated a man who I’m quite sure was undiagnosed BPD. We cycled and recycled over 8 of the most intense years of my life.

    Our first date was amazing. I was a recently divorced single mom and all of a sudden I met this guy who hung on my every word and made me feel so desirable and wanted it was amazing. Our first few months together made me feel like I had met my soul mate and we moved in together after about six months.

    I saw the first rage shortly thereafter. But it wasn’t specifically focused on me and there were lots of apologies afterwards. I also caught him in various lies and for many more months I bought into his apologies and excuses. However, the relationship got progressively more toxic with more rages, more lies, less apologies and less good times. I eventually kicked him out after a very toxic period of rages, holes in the walls of my house from his fists, severely toxic verbal abuse toward me and internet cheating (with other guys because it also turned out his sexuality was not grounded). We recycled, had 4 good months and then toxic more months, I kicked him out, we recycled again and it went on for 8 years.

    I finally hit the wall 18 months ago and we broke up and I stayed away. I didn’t go No Contact which I probably should have done but I was so empty and broken after the relationship, I still needed the “drug” of contact with him.

    What did I learn? I do think BPDs can love and I do think he loved me even if it was in a defective way. I believe he thinks he loves me. He’s not a monster – there were times when he was loving and caring and in those times I do think those emotions were sincere. Some of the best times of my life were with him and they were amazing.

    When he was triggered or disregulated – he was a psychotic monster. Sometimes he would rage and the verbal and sadly, physical abuse, would be so severe and awful – I still am not over some of the events that happened and probably never will be. Those attacks pushed me into a pretty severe depression although I didn’t know it at the time. There were other times the rage was a quiet rage where he would sit in the basement and simmer and only blow up if I went near him. The worst thing about his rage is that he truly believed everything was my fault including his own inability to control himself. In retrospect, I realize there was a truth to that. I do think I triggered him and he couldn’t control himself – I’m not at all justifying it – just agreeing he was totally out of control. During rages in the later part of the relationship he would scream that I had to apologize to him for causing him to rage – that’s how out of reality and psychotic he was.

    The hardest thing I ever did was finally say goodbye to him. The first six months of the breakup – I had severe panic attacks, was depressed, felt directionless, turned to him only to see that our breakup didn’t seem to bother him in the slightest. I’ve only started to feel better after the first 12 months passed.

    So – what did I learn?

    1. At the time I knew nothing of BPD but desperation turned me to the internet and I found a site called BPDfamily.com and found a support group there to educate and help me. Educating yourself can help you understand your experience.

    2. BPDs are not 100% monsters. They can love, be kind and be amazing and I think extra sensitive because of their issues. BUT – they can be psychotic monsters that will completely destroy you with their behavior.

    3. The relationship is a complicated dance between two people. The BPD person has clear mental illness – but the person who stays should also think about why they stayed. Therapy can help here.

    4. BUT – and this is important – don’t beat yourself up about staying with a BPD. Why did I stay? I loved him is the simple answer. The relationship had amazing times. I do think he loved me back. We had times of complete vulnerability and openness and I think it was real. The rages and abuse started well after I was in love and that’s probably what got me to stay but I stayed waaaaay too long because I had unhealthy boundaries. I think I also got addicted to the drama and caught up in my own fears of inadequacy and abandonment. This doesn’t mean I am mentally ill person – but simply caught up in a highly dramatic situation. The constant, toxic abuse also destroyed my self-esteem and although I thought I was able to ignore it, I realize in retrospect I did internalize some of it. This made me believe no one else would want me (because he said it for years).

    5. Moving on was the hardest thing I ever did. I had panic attacks, I missed him unbearably, I cried constantly. It was almost like he was a drug and I missed the fix. My self-esteem was destroyed, I was depressed, at times I was suicidal. But it was the best thing I could do for myself. It took a year of pain, grief, panic and depression before I even started to feel better.

    6. Now – almost 2 years later I’ve been dating a wonderful man that I adore. I don’t think about my ex as much other than as my trip to OZ and back. As awful as it was, it made me stronger and I am a happier person because of the experience today. I have more insights into myself and appreciate my new relationship immensely.

    My advice once you start to see BPD behaviors is to leave. Toxic verbal abuse and physical abuse are never ok and no one can handle it without some damage even if you think at the time you can. Love NEVER includes shredding the other person. There is no healthy way to be in any kind of relationship with someone willing to tear you apart. Leaving a BPD person is particularly hard because as much as we want to say they are 100% evil – they are not and the parts you were initially attracted to are still there. And I think it is easier to fall in love with a BPD for some reason – perhaps their vulnerability?

    There is nothing wrong with a “non” for staying with a BPD. I think it is the kindest, most giving people that do decide to stay. Don’t beat yourself up but also learn from your experience as you do from other areas of your life.

    Nons can survive the break up and eventually you start to feel normal again and you do move on. And the moving on is great in the end – it ultimately feels good to close that chapter of your life and move on to a better, healthy relationship.

    1. Hi “To Oz…”,

      Thanks for your wonderful comment: both comprehensive and nuanced. A non that can see the nuance is in a good place to assess whether or not staying is truly worth it. However, I agree that in the case of abuse, EVERYONE should leave (at the very least until the BPD has had sufficient treatment).

      BPDs are masters of projective identification. Your anxiety and depression after the breakup went beyond “usual breakup” malaise. Instead, parts of his personality projected on to you were suddenly removed, and you had to reclaim your own identity once again. Sounds like it should be purely positive, but not when you truly care about someone.

      Thanks, your comment will help others greatly!

  220. Why are non-BPD’s posting their stories here when there are plenty of support sites for BPD partners? I don’t even suffer from BPD and I can understand why some who do are getting really offended by some of these posts.

    Here’s my 2cents worth of advice (and this goes for anyone who suffers from a mental illness). As a decades long sufferer of major depression with bouts of anxiety, the best advice I can give is to find a good psychiatrist. They are doctors that have a lot of experience finding the right medications to help stabalize moods. They specialize in only helping people who suffer from mental illnesses.

    Another suggestion I would add is to find a therapist that has Experience (and that is important) treating Borderlines. Is it DBT therapy? The name escapes me at the moment.

    There is hope for everyone who suffers from mental illness. There is no need to suffer mental torture BUT you have to seek help from the right professionals. If you were told you have diabetes, you would do anything in your power to get treatment right? Mental illness is no less an illness than diabetes or any other physical illness. And it is just as life threatening.

    I wish everyone here the best of luck.

    1. There is hope for everyone who suffers from mental illness. There is no need to suffer mental torture BUT you have to seek help from the right professionals.

      Good thoughts. BPD requires a patient, skilled and experienced therapist. Most critically, one who sets firm boundaries.

      You were also referring to Dialectical Behavior Therapy groups (DBT), developed by Dr. Marsha Linehan. Although not exclusively a group process, DBT in group settings is particularly helpful for those with suicidal thoughts and BPD. At its core, it teaches mindfulness (read more: What is DBT?)

      Unfortunately – particularly in the USA – access to quality therapists is often a function of money and health insurance plans. Some who need a good doctor can’t afford to see one. Occasionally, doctors take on cases for free, but these clinicians are rare. Additionally, many psychiatrists farm out therapy to social workers, licensed mental health counselors, and Phds. The average American Psychiatrist sees patients for 20-30 minute “med checks” and makes sure their therapy is progressing. Few offer medication AND therapy, the most crucial combination needed for beating mental health problems.

  221. I have read a lot about bpd to try and have some understanding, many websites were generalising or simply saying run for your life. This doesn’t help people who have come out of relationships with someone with bpd.

    Clearly each person who suffers with bpd is different so it is wrong to generalise. Behavioural traits may be similar but everyone will have encountered different behaviour. Personally after reading through all of this, I feel NM has been extremely honest and I have learnt a great deal from reading his/her posts. I was very much similar to Tom except my ex ended the relationship. I was obsessing. Wonder if what he was thinking, doing etc. Was he full of remorse, did he even think about me. I began to think I was ill. I read how they don’t care once you split up, that he would just be looking for his next victim, it was all fake, he ‘hooked’ me with great sex and flattery. Constantly reading the same things over an over led me to depression and complete lack of self worth that this happened to me. I felt betrayed that someone I loved played a game with my heart. I have been through hell. I have been on medication, counselling sessions, I have felt physical pain from this loss. Not one word has been spoken between us since he ended it with intense rage where the police were almost called. This was not the first time I saw his rage ( I have been on receiving end of both physical and mental abuse) but it was definitely a point where we both knew there was no come back. It has been 6 months since his intense rage and I have now learnt that I allowed this to happen. I had plenty of opportunities to walk but I didn’t. I thought I could fix him. I guided him to get help but he never saw it through. I now know I couldn’t ‘save’ him. I now know this was not personal to me and that without help he will carry on living his life as the victim. During the relationship I let a lot of his anger go because he said he cared so much for me that he acted irrationally. This may have been true but I will reiterate this is not specific to me. He will get jealous again, rage again all because he ‘cares too much’ for the next person. He is not in control of his emotions. Did he hurt me on purpose, was I a big game to him? I will never know. All I know now is this, it is not important to have the answers, my health and happiness is far more important. I never thought I would be at this stage, it’s a daily battLe, I do miss him and I do think about him a lot. However, we were not right for each other. I was absolutely no good for him and his illness. I was weak. I took him back after physical abuse. All I wanted was to please him. I gave him everything and it was never enough and it never would be. I was consumed by him and through everything I gave him, I lost a little but of me. That is not love. I knew it wasn’t right at the time but I stayed. Now, and only very recently do understand just how toxic this relationship was. Doesn’t help me get over it but it certainly will help me with future relationships and it has helped me deal with personal issues as to why I endured so much abusive behaviour from someone. The relationship issues were 50/50. I am not playing the victim. I am learning and moving on. I doubt a day will go by when I don’t think of him. I recently heard he got himself in a fight and police were called, without therapy he WILL NOT change. I hope he does. I have no anger. I was hurt but I don’t hate him though his last words to me were that he hated me. Maybe I am still excusing his behaviour, but deep down he has confessed to me he hates himself. Something I think took a lot to admit but I believe him. In all the rage he had I actually saw it is his eyes.

    It’s not about running from a bpd, it’s knowing when/if it gets too much to have self respect to know when to walk away and also point them in the direction of help.

    Everyone deserves to be loved and forgiven and that is why I wish him all the best.

  222. Hello. I am someone who loves a pwBPD. He was my fiancee and in true BPD fashion raged, ran off with another woman and painted me blackest of black.

    Its been a year since then and despite counselling on my part and moving on I really do love him. I have a good life with many positive things and people in it yet my heart still aches for my ex. I pray for him and wish him peace.

    He is apparently in counselling but I have witnessed him con his psychologist(s) before. I know he realizes he projects and splits now but i don’t think his fundamental behaviour has changed as I recently got matched to him on a dating website he is active on while he still has his new true love plastered all over Facebook. (We have a few mutual friends.) So it seems history is repeating itself. I feel so sorry for the poor man.

    I know he wants a peaceful happy relationship. I know he wants to feel secure and loved. I just don’t know if he will ever get there. I really hope he does.

    I so greatly admire any pwBPD who truly engages in their therapy and makes positive progress. If you are struggling don’t give up. You are worthy. You are deserving. You can overcome. I have to believe this and some posts here seem to indicate that its true. I have to believe that some day the person I love can find peace. it may not be with me but he deserves it too.

    Meanwhile I continue to grieve and counsel and move forward. I miss him. I want to reach out to him. But every time I do he lashes out at me so I don’t think it helps him or me. So I will send him love from afar as I am sure someone is sending each of you who suffer here love too. Even if you don’t realize it you are loved.

    Keep posting, keep learning, and keep healing. Maybe someday we can all come back and post positive success stories.

  223. Hello all,

    I am a non-BPD and my BP wife of 17 1/2 years left 10 months ago to move in with her parents and has filed for divorce. She wavered for a while, but says she absolutely does not want to reconcile and now says she definitely wants a divorce.

    Two weeks ago she was pleasant with me and said when I asked, that she might consider holding off on the divorce, as it has not yet been entered into judgement. I told her since we are legally separated, we are basically divorced now anyway, so there is no rush. Last week, she told me she definitely wants a divorce. She said “we can get the kids into counseling, but we are not doing family counseling.” She said “you abused me”. I told her she abused me. She seemed to think that was ridiculous, but it is true. I have not always been perfect, but many times, I have been sucked into her “crazy-making” behavior and exhibited what is known as “mutual projection”. I am sure some of you on here know what that is. Sometimes she has treated me very well and seemed like she was head over heels in love with me, but I can also say that she has treated me worse than any human I have ever met.

    To my knowledge, she has not been officially diagnosed with BPD, but I am almost certain that is what it is. She is definitely PAPD, but it is now thought that PAPD is not a separate PD, but possibly part of many separate PDs. I have had two clinicians who have seen her suggest BPD and I have also been studying it for more than 20 years, so I do recognize it.

    As mentioned above, she is living with her parents and has lived with them six times since she became an adult (this is the 3rd time she has left me). She is now 43. Her parents have frequently interfered with our marriage and blamed everything that has ever happened between us on me and have also suggested that I verbally abused her even though I know that she was verbally abused by them when she was growing up.

    She says she is happy now. She says she is going to get her own place, but most likely never will, as her parents don’t really want her to and she is too scared to be on her own. She never has been, as she was married at 18 (I am her second husband). She thinks her parents are the greatest people in the world (or at least she is trying to convince herself of that). If anyone here has read Negative Love Syndrome by Bob Hoffman, you know what is going on here. She is now getting the approval she always wanted from them and is now “happy” because of it. That is my theory anyway.

    The problem is, since her parents blame everyone else for everything and have said to me “we know she has difficulty regulating her moods, but we don’t think she is mentally ill”, there is no way she is going to get the help she needs. She knows I have thought in the past that she may be a borderline and it infuriates her that I think that. I must mention that my 24 year old daughter’s mother, to whom I was never married, is a borderline and my wife hates her. She doesn’t like being put in the same category with my ex. She and her family seem to think they are above having any issues and that it is always someone else that is the problem. My wife is currently in counseling, but I am not sure it is going to help unless she is honest with herself and her parents stay out of it, which is unlikely, as they involve themselves in everyone’s business and don’t allow anyone to make their own decisions.

    My ultimate question is, how can I help my wife when she is so resistant to me? I am the only one who really wants to help her, but she doesn’t see it. I really do care about my wife and want to keep the family together but she really does not care and is in denial about what it is doing to the kids. I purchased Linehan’s DBT workbook, as my therapist (yes, I have been depressed for months over this) suggested I could get something out of it as well. I also am reading The Buddah and The Borderline, which is very interesting. I would love to share them with her, but she will likely discard them and possibly become angry with me for suggesting she is has BPD.

    Any suggestions from anyone on here would be greatly appreciated. Also, for those of you on here that are BPs and admit it, I commend you all for the difficult step it must have taken to admit it and to seek help. I have learned a lot more about this disorder lately and try to remind myself what a struggle BPs go through. Good luck to all of you.

    1. Hello, sorry for the pain and troubles you’ve experienced. You asked:

      My ultimate question is, how can I help my wife when she is so resistant to me? I am the only one who really wants to help her, but she doesn’t see it.

      You indeed might be the only one who truly cares. But that’s the trouble with BPD. Those who care most are forsaken, while those in denial (the parents) and clueless friends will enable her. Only your wife can decide to get into therapy, short of a court order or suicide attempt. Even then, there’s no guarantee she will follow through with treatment.

      Ultimately, individuals with BPD must decide to get treatment themselves. Often, the impetus is the last person supporting them moves on. I use “moves on” for clarity: you’re not quitting, giving up, not loving or abandoning. Rather, you’re acting in self preservation to save yourself. She will eventually get care, but it will take years to take effect. By then, she’ll likely emerge much different and the timing of your relationship will be an obvious piece of collateral damage in each of your lives.

      Please seek counseling of your own to work through the emotions you’re feeling. It is a beautiful thing to care deeply about someone else, even if they are deeply wounded and need special treatment. By the same token, don’t care so much that you lose your own sanity and peace of mind.

  224. Another question I have is, does she actually believe the things she says when she lies or when she accuses me of abuse? I have heard some say she doesn’t know she is doing it, but sometimes her lies seem so calculated and planned out even though they are not plausible.

  225. I was in a relationship with a woman who has BPD but either does not know it or is catching on but it is too late. We were in an on-again off-again relationship for several years. Each time she dumped me it was very sudden and traumatic for me. Either I would come home and would be locked out of the house or everything would be gone. This last time I got dumped over a text message then found out weeks later she had a boyfriend. Needless to say it was a slap in the face. We were talking about marriage constantly but I think it was just another way to control me. I was constantly abused emotionally using jealousy and flirting to control me. The mind games went on for years. During the last breakup I wasn’t allowed to see my two daughters for several months and after not even seeing my ex for several months she went and got a restraining order against me saying she feared for her life. I’ve never harmed a woman in my life so this was very shocking and humiliating for me. I ended up quitting my job and leaving the state. The worst part about all of this is that I loved her very much and when she goes into rages its like I mean nothing to her. It causes me so much emotional pain. The last time was especially traumatic and I ended up in a deep depression and had to seek therapy. I always get blamed for the breakup and she makes me out to be a horrible villain. This sucks because I loved her and gave her everything including two beautiful children. Now I have nothing and she refuses to try and resolve it. Now she is shopping for a new man to father my children and needless to say I am very hurt and am preparing for a custody fight to protect my children. If she doesn’t want to be a family and wants to sleep around then she should give up my children to me so she can live this lifestyle. I have spent 7 years going through this and I am exhausted and alone from all of it. Hopefully she seeks counseling and realizes how much pain she has caused me and our children, and even herself. I still love her but feel foolish for loving someone who throws away a good man so selfishly and carelessly. Now I have to start over in my thirties trying to build a family with someone who has the sense to fix themselves. I am not perfect but I have spent years in counseling trying to figure out if it was me. No I know how crazy a person with BPD can be. I wish she would reconcile for our children’s sake. She is still loved but she would rather sleep around and ruin her own life being in denial and being proud of her behavior. SUCKS…

    1. Hello, sorry for the troubles and pain you experienced.

      Unfortunately, the behaviors you describe are part of the BPD playbook, although some could also be considered Histrionic or Narcissistic.

      The most problematic is the lack of emotional fair play: rages occur from the tiniest provocation and result in drastic consequences. The fact that your children are being used as pawns in this game is more troubling. Full custody is an uphill battle short of a court ruling she is an incompetent parent.

      The more likely scenario – sadly – is that your children learn in adulthood that the best decision was to walk away from the marriage (not them) and understand some relationships are too toxic. If your wife is making no effort to get treatment, let the record show you at least tried to make amends and understand the situation through counseling on your own.

      Easier said: it’s not your fault, but it certainly feels that way. I hope others on the blog can help you through this.

  226. I myself also am a BPD sufferer. I just was wondering if paranoid rages are also a side effect of BPD rage. I just looked up what my symptoms were caused by and saw that they were closely related to paranoid rage. I’ve been diagnosed with BPD, a manic depressive, bipolar as well as anxiety. I’ve had manic modes, but nothing like what I just had tonight. I was getting antsy, worked up, couldn’t concentrate on my job nor could I actually speak clearly. I just want to see if these correlate with each other or if they are two separate rages. Or speak with somebody who has had paranoid rages or knows anything about them and how to contain them or know what the signs of an oncoming episode are.

  227. I was married to a BPD for over 10 years and ultimately it has evolved into the worst experience of my life. We have two children together and it is heartbreaking to watch her, a mother, destroying the lives of our children.

    Once she decided that “it was over” and that she was going to take the kids and shut me completely out of their lives the “BPD War” was on. I never imagined (and still can’t)how a person could become such the personification of evil, pain, destruction,(feel free to insert any other descriptor here).

    In the first year of our divorce, I was dragged to court by her 38 times. On the second court appearance, I was given sole legal custody because she was so over the top. It seems that once she lost custody of the kids that only encouraged even more destructive behavior.
    I recall sitting in mediation sessions that I would finally have to leave because I was in tears from all of the relentless attacks, I think about 6 in all. She really delighted in talking about my son whom I lost in an accident (28) and telling the most unimaginable lies about him. She said he was a drug addict, criminal, shiftless, alcoholic and I would have to sit an listen to this.
    Simply not satisfied with trying to destroy my kids and I emotionally, she also started distortion campaigns against me in the community where we lived and at my job as well.
    She also then began sending letters to the IRS stating that I was a drug dealer and was committing tax fraud. Of course, during all of this time there were the false allegations to the police about domestic violence (she had been arrested and jailed for domestic violence, not me). And she was even able to get a certificate that she was “Battered Woman” from one of the groups she attended.

    Then there was the allegations that I was an alcoholic & drug addict, which she continually filed with the court, about once a week. Finally the court ordered me to complete an Alcohol and other Drug evaluation, which I did. I also submitted to a 9 panel hair follicle drug screen. The results? I am not an alcoholic nor drug addict, and tested negative on the hair test. And it only cost me about $1500 to “prove my innocence”. And the story goes on and on and on.

    Fortunately, I have been in counseling for the last 5 years and it has helped some, although the constant reminder “not to personalize it, because she is ill” my normal response is “Fuck You”.

    I can’t say that I hate Borderlines, however, there are a lot of us out there, that get really pissed when we hear the BPD pleadings for love and understanding, while seeing the trail of destruction that they leave behind and take no responsibility for.
    I’m sorry you are sick, have a giant black hole inside, rage, hate, and experience all of the thing that you do…. But leave me the Fuck alone because I have feelings too

    1. Hi Fight or Flight,

      I’m terribly sorry for what happened to you. That sort of vitriol, drama and extensive legal proceedings approaches the extreme of BPD behavior. The fact that children were involved is even more troubling; and worse that she picked on both your son and you as addicts, including talking about him after his death.

      Honestly, there is no excuse for any of that.

      I encourage you to continue counseling with an empathetic therapist. If you are interested in the technical nature of her affliction, it can be explained. But those are wasted words.

      As a recovering BPD, I will tell you in earnest: Your feelings do matter, and you don’t deserve to be hurt in such a horrific way. BPDs can get better, but it is up to them.

  228. Hi there. I have been in a relationship with a person for 5 years. She has recently been diagnosed as a BDP after totally spiraling out of control.

    I don’t know what to do and how to handle the rage explosions. Both of us are getting help but I am really scared. This person has no family and no one that can take care of her besides me and I am doing everything I can. I keep getting hurt and manipulated and sometimes I cannot suppress my frustration.

    I am completely lost. I really want to help and be with her but I don’t know what to do. I am also afraid she will either kill herself (she has tried before) or get violent with me. Can someone please shed some light? I’m desperate.

    Thank you.

  229. I read pretty far down, but not all of the comments. I have BPD but I am not violent towards others. I don’t get violent or hateful towards others but I do kick doors, throw things, punch things, and harm myself. I only throw my own things. When I get into a rage, I do not want to hurt anyone. I don’t abuse or insult my husband, although if I get angry enough I will yell about what’s bothering me rather than just speak. Usually, I go to a room by myself and either I calm down or harm myself/punch a pillow.

    I am worried about how angry I get. It’s pretty scary when I feel like I can’t even control myself. I can’t think rationally and my emotions win, even though I know I need to calm down. I wish I was normal and could handle this in a more healthy manner.

    I am trying to find a therapist or maybe get into DBT that will actually help me find ways to cope. My therapist now isn’t really trained in bpd so she’s not very helpful for anything other than listening.

    I can’t imagine those with bpd not wanting to get help. Every time I get into a rage all I want to do is get help for myself so I can find ways to deal with my extreme emotions. Everyone deals with their problems differently though.

    Good luck to those with BPD and the ones who love them. I know it is hard for everyone.

  230. I am a 22 year old female who has had three unstable intimate relationships so far. I am currently in a relationship with a 21 year old male who is better than any boyfriend I could have ever imagined. He is patient, understanding, giving, and proves how much he loves me every single day. From the beginning of our relationship he has been this way, but we did not start off on the best terms. I was coming out of another relationship and was at the most unstable point in my life. I was engaging in sexually risky behavior, black out drinking and using drugs almost every night, and feeling completely lost. We met however and he saw something in me that still confuses me to this day. He was persistent in wanting to date me and I basically used his affection for months without truly caring about him, but only myself. Finally, I realized I had fallen in love with him and finally committed to the relationship. We have monogamously been together almost two years and live together. Most of the time it feels like we are the happiest people in the world. However, I still cannot shake my impulsivity and anger. I stopped drinking for a while because it only caused issues, but am slowly trying to allow it in my life responsibly. ( It is significantly improved, although I definitely become more emotionally unstable with a drink or two in me).
    The other day after having a perfect evening together the night before I snapped. I thought he had lost my debit card (it turned up a few days later) and flipped out. There are a few stressors occurring in my life right now and when I thought he lost my debit card it suddenly felt like my world was ending. I began yelling at him and punched him as hard as I could repeatedly on the arms and chest area. I told him how worthless he was and that all he does is ruin my life. I told him to f*** off and felt like I never wanted to see him again and would be fine with it.

    I don’t always use physical violence, but I would say I snap and say verbally abusive remarks to him almost daily. I say the things about his character I know will hurt him the most and feel superior as I’m doing it. As it is happening I feel that I am completely in the right and that he deserves all of it. Of course, later I realize how irrational it all was and I remember that I don’t think I could ever find anyone else like him or the love we share.

    The anger bursts usually only last up to an hour, but I usually do not feel remorse until the next day or even later.

    The thing that scares me is that while I’m in my angry state I feel no emotions or empathy towards him. In fact, I cannot feel anything at all. I am a psychology major and have learned to recognize how irrational my behavior is and what I should try to do to fix it. But…..when I’m like that that side of me cannot let go of its righteousness and I feel blank inside and don’t even know what to say to him.

    Eventually I feel remorse….but sometimes not even unless I am publicly embarrassed.
    I have never been diagnosed with BPD and unfortunately cannot afford psychotherapy at the moment. The second I can save up some money I plan to seek out someone that offers DBT, and try to practice the techniques myself currently. I truly believe I might have the disorder because I can relate to every symptom used in diagnosis.

    I guess I just wanted to post my situation because it’s something no one really knows about. It is a dark secret between my boyfriend, and I and it’s nice to find a community that could understand. Any tips or words of experience are greatly welcomed.

    I just want to become the rational and empathetic person my boyfriend deserves. I even want to apply to grad school for clinical psychology. But, I feel that I greatly need to improve myself before I could ever help others.

  231. You should all be locked up so you can throw things and rage at each other. It’s not fair the things you do to people who care about you. I’m about to leave one of your asses, and let her come after me. I welcome it!

  232. I have a girlfriend of almost 2 years in April, and even though she has never been officially diagnosed with BPD, for weeks I’ve been reading up and doing research, and all of these things and all the symptoms I’ve found online is the exact match to the behaviour she exhibits. We started of as friends from the school we went too, and we grew a friendship which eventually led to a relationship and even though at the start we had an amazing most instant connection, found we had the same birthday, etc and I was absolutely stunned to think i had found someone that was infront of me the whole time and how amazing she was and how she made me feel, she made me feel really high some days with how lovely she was and how caring and considerate and showing her affection even if I was walking or next to her and I felt so safe. I did know from school that she’s had fights with people and she has a temper but she never exhibited that towards myself, that was until getting towards a year of our relationship, and she had her first ‘episode’ I’d seen her anger building up over the couple of days, with her gettin stressed or extremely annoyed at little things or if the remote wouldn’t work for example or I dropped something by mistake, she would say something nasty or she would tell me to pick it up and I was stupid for dropping it in the first place and even if her mum said something to her that annoyed her or wound her up she would turn all her rage and anguish on me and I would lie at night while shen slept and silently cry wonderin what the hell went wrong head going round in circles.

    Then came her first episode, she was on my phone, and there was a conversation of me and a mutual male friend, from our school, and that’s when she flew into her rage. She had this crazed manic look in her eyes she threw my phone across the room then when i tired to pick it up she wouldn’t let me and started quizzing me why the f**k he was messaging me and threatening to seriously harm him, throwing and punching things, then blaming me wen she hurt herself from punching wall,door, etc even though it was a friendly conversation, plus I’m a lesbian and he’s gay, and to me, I was seriously bewildered and confused as to why she was acting like this and after maybe 20 minutes after she calmed down, and was full off apologies and emotional empathy showering me with affection and I truly believed it was a one off and it wouldn’t happen again so i isolated myself from this male friend, hoping that would improve our relationship and that would be it, but I was wrong and this led to an up down relationship, with my self esteem ruined and I didn’t feel strong enough to leave her, I still don’t, I love her with all my heart still and after yesterday’s bpd episode, I still don’t understand how I can cope with these feelings of pain and hopelessness and when she’s throwing insults and degrading me, mentally crushing me, I still feel like I want to go back.

    Our latest episode was Thursday afternoon, when she asked me to put money in her bank and I forgot the pound change I had in my pocket of hers I didn’t put in. And when I told her and even when I had the receipt she was screaming st me down the phone, calling me useless and why did she ask someone so stupid anyway and i tried to battle it off, but then she asked me yesterday evening to help change her room around, and I scrubbed everything hoovered etc, and everything was going fine, up until she reminded herself about the mistake I made yesterday, and she launched into this awful rage, hitting me , punching her television, wall and took her door half of the hinges, forcing me to come back into the house when I walked out, when I came in taking my phone off me wouldn’t let me leave, trying to overdose infront of me and when I tried to intervene she hit me again and then demanding money of me, when I didn’t give it her that’s when all hell broke loose, and I finally got out and I still feel mentally drained today I feel lost she won’t talk to me I feel like I’ve done something to wrong, I know it’s her bpd but that was just when I just made a mistake will someone please tell me of what to do because after that, I don’t know what to say or do

    1. Hi Anonymous,
      Thanks for your comment and I’m sorry for all the anguish you’ve been experiencing with your girlfriend.

      I feel like I’ve done something to wrong, I know it’s her bpd but that was just when I just made a mistake

      Besides being human, you haven’t done anything wrong. You feel wrong because of your girlfriend’s exaggerated emotional reaction. In reality, those feelings belong to her, not the situation which produced them.

      You know it’s her BPD, but I wouldn’t separate her from her BPD just yet: they are the same person. The Dr. Jekyll, Mr. Hyde phenomena. The same person, two opposite presentations. Yes, the days you are both in love are part of her. Equally, the days she rages and you both fight, that is also part of her.

      There is little you can do to help her. People with BPD need long-term therapy from a licensed professional. They also must come to grips with the condition on their own. Others encouraging or demanding “therapy or else” will not see progress. If you relationship ever gets to this point, you would be better off leaving. Do you want to wait around for several years, until she gets better? There’s no guarantee she’d want to continue the relationship afterwards.

      You’re already at the “Walking on eggshells” stage, where the slightest, insignificant mistake leads to an unreasonable reaction. Your bank deposit story is a great example. No one is perfect, people forget to deposit change all the time. But her response was irrational. It sounded like you had just stolen thousands, instead of forgetting to deposit loose change. Always compare the reaction to the perceived “crime”.

      If it doesn’t match, ask what the fight is really about. Later, if the fight evolves into a prosecution of you, are you really that bad of a person?

      My best words of advice: 1) Be calm and let the fights run their course. If emotions run high, leave the scene. Do not risk a physical altercation. 2) Leave her, even though it will hurt. Otherwise, you will spend the rest of your life being victimized, blamed and psychologically abused. It is her responsibility to get treatment and improve. You have a right to be human, be loved and valued for who you are; and that includes making mistakes everyone else makes.

  233. Hello,
    It helps me to read through others’ experience – thank you. I am a BPD partner, just coming of a rage. I have been told by many that I have incredible patience, but BPD’s specialize in destroying that. They just don’t seem happy until they can find the button to push that hurt the deepest. My partner is very intelligent and skilled at debating. I recognize the disease and the uncontrolled rage, but after hours of the most demonic fury, where she won’t let me disengage, II ultimately succumb. I won’t to leave and I completely agree with all the remarks that get labeled by BPDs as without compassion. Don’t they know how much hurt they cause?? What angers me most is the feeling that they just don’t want to change and are happy to abuse one’s patience. I have lasted ten years; I don’t want revenge. I just want out; I am exhausted.

    1. Hi Roc,

      Your feelings are completely understandable. Your partner needs therapy. She needs to take responsibility for getting better.

      I highly encourage you leave. She might be better one day, but you can’t wait. Your sanity, health and happiness depends on it.

      Please continue to engage the community, we are happy to help. At this point, you have suffered more than enough.

  234. Hi,
    My youngest sister has severe BPD (diagnosed). She is now 49 and started having BPD traits around the age of 25. She has emotionally and verbally abused me for 30 years and it is just getting worse. She has no friends, hasn’t had a long term relationship in many years. Just got fired from her job. Like all of the other comments here, she has no regard to any feelings for anyone. She exaggerates, forgets things that don’t suit her anger at this time, This is the stuff she texts, writes and says to the ones left that still have a relationship with her. This is actually kind of mild. I did take our names off the post. WARNING: Extreme language.

    This is my last message, if any one of you reply it will be antagonizing so considering the state my mind is in I would not go there if I were any of you.

    First off: Nephew, fuck off, you are dead to me. You’re rude, disrespectful, absolutely clueless about life in general and you are a child. I feel sorry for Ann. Nothing more to say to you. Except: DO NOT PROCREATE.

    Brother: Take accountability for the lack of respect your kids show. You allow this punk ass to bully you on Fakebook (ALL OF YOU GET THE FUCK OFF THAT PUSSY SHIT. Every one of your IQ’s dropped 50 points minimum). You don’t smack them when they’re out of line and you let them all walk all over you. Stop yelling from the barstool and DO SOMETHING about it. They have NO home training and you are the father. Get that belt out and smack them with it just like Dad did to us or smack his face and scream some sense into him like Mommy did. At least WE were home trained.

    Me (Sister): I went through a deep depression even further when you ganged up on me feeling sorry for Ann who looked like she was about to cry. Yet, you all make me cry. I’ve been crying all weekend, but you have the luxury of everyone always going to YOUR house while using pathetic BULLSHIT excuses for never coming to MY house. WOULD YOU HAVE MY BACK AGAINST SOMEONE WHO ACTUALLY DOES MAKE ME CRY?!? ARE YOU ALL HAPPY BECAUSE THE WAY YOU ALL ACT, CAUSING ME TO REACT, HAS ME PRAYING I DROP DEAD?!? I show you the pompous pussy ass jerk off response from your scumbag loser nephew mooch who is about to marry a mommy figure to support his ass, and you have no reaction as to having MY back?!? Again, you and brother BOTH NEVER HAVE MY BACK. JUST LIKE YOU WERE BOTH JUST FINE LEAVING ME ON A BATHROOM FLOOR IN PAIN YELLING AT ME WHEN I REALLY NEEDED TO BE IN THE ER. SPENDING ONE FUCKING NIGHT WITH ME DURING A 3 MONTH RECOVERY WITH COMPLICATIONS, LEAVING ME AFTER ONLY 2 HOURS TO FUCKING ROT ON THAT BIRTHDAY ALL BY MYSELF.

    Sister: You ask me about the triggers that send me into a deep rage and makes me realize it’s Me vs. The whole fucking world. You, too, told me to fuck off after my surgery on that Xmas, you were off but refused to come be with me. Wow. Just. Fucking. Wow. Then you flake out this past birthday and NEVER come stay a night to hang with me, but ALL THE TIME IN THE WORLD FOR FRIENDS!

    You all think by talking shit about me behind my back and judging me instead of showing the FUCK up occasionally helps me AT ALL?!? DO YA’S? I swear to fucking God I pray I drop dead because NONE OF YOU ARE WORTH MY LOVE, TRUST OR WORTH LIVING FOR. ALL OF YOU ARE JUST FUCKING ANNOYING NOISE OR WORDS FROM A TINY BOX WITH ABSOLUTELY FUCKING NOTHING TO SAY. YOU AINT HUMANS TO ME, HUMANS ARE LIVE IN PERSON IN FRONT OF MY FACE. MOM AND DAD WOULD BE DISGUSTED AND THEY WOULD BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF ALL OF YOU, ESPECIALLY YOU, nephew, YOU FUCKING JERKOFF. You are a disgrace to your grandparents’ memory.

    I’m changing my beneficiaries to help charities for single, child free, orphans. Why should people who disrespect me, trigger my BPD, and basically do nothing to contribute to my feeling like I HAVE a family deserve ANYTHING?!? You know, noise from little computer boxes. That’s all you are to me.


    DO NOT DARE RESPOND, NOT ONE OF YOU. YOU WANT ME TO SNAP? Go on, ANTAGONIZE ME. Do not DARE send me 1 fucking email EVER again. You are all blocked out of my phone. You can all get off your asses and come to me in person because I am DONE coming to all of you all the time. Gabe, you really are a little fucking jerkoff pussy dickless wonder. YOU ARE DEAD TO ME.

    The rest of you, if I don’t see you this week you’re all dead to me too. May God take me off this shit pebble.

    So when she finally calms down, she never apologizes, says it’s our fault. I think I have gotten a sorry, literally just a sorry, a couple of times. Since this is ongoing, of course no one wants to be around her. So that starts it over again. Every single weekend and the abuse lasts for about 5 days. I put up with this abuse for so many decades because I feel sorry for her. I understand she has a mental problem, but man, I’m just so worn down from her. I have so much on my plate, my son is an addict, my significant other has an autoimmune disease and she still can’t cut me any slack. I’m afraid if she hurts herself I will be consumed with guilt but I don’t know what else to do anymore.

    1. Hi Viola,

      Thank you for your comment, including the text messages. You’re the first to share how BPD over mobile technology is awful. If anything, the impersonal nature of cellphones and email make it worse. Your sister was clearly in an excited emotional state, possibly a rage.

      Over the years I’ve come to realize adult BPDs are responsible for their own care. They can’t trouble others while expecting to be supported at the same time. Children and teens require family support emotionally and legally (in the USA). I think early intervention can actually head it off before the tumultuous young adult years. But a full grown adult has to take responsibility for their own life.

      I’m very sorry she treats you this way. You are being manipulated. But she unleashes these attacks at you because – ironically – you do care. The solution isn’t to stop caring, it is to stop engaging until she is better.

      Finally, she likely thinks you have some insight into what truly troubles her. Meaning you both shared tough experiences as children, confided in each other or otherwise bonded. Therefore she really hopes you understand her pain because you went through it with her. Whether or not this is true (or in her imagination), you do NOT have to tolerate her abuse as an adult. You’ve healed and grown as an adult, she must do the same. While it’s no one’s fault she has BPD (including her), she can not abuse those who care about her and ever hope to get better.

      She needs treatment. You know this. Draw the line.

  235. It is so good to have a site like this to read at times when you are so lost and unsure of the reality.
    I was reading this late last night after being put through another rage from my partner. We have been together nearly 8 years and the rages from her come and gone.
    Last night was the most violent yet. As all times it started with something small. I texed her saying I wasn’t pleased with something she had done and she interpreted it as an attack. Then it went from bad to worse in front of my 13 yr old son. She had got better with rules and boundaries especially with the physical threats like blocking me in a room and standing over me shouting but last night was the worst. Several times she blocked the doorway and then pushed me. I tried to keep calm and kept saying “leave the room” but it just enraged her more. I took my boy out for dinner and that was interpreted as abandoning her. When I finally asked her to leave the house (a mutually agreed time out measure)she stormed around the house shouting that I was chucking her out and even walked into my son having a shower to make a scene of saying “goodbye”. I asked him to stay in his room so I could deal with her and get her out but she pinned me against the wall shouting into my face. I kept calm. She left for a couple of hours then returned to the house, which I had locked, banging on all doors and my poor son was so frightened. He had asked what she had done while he was in his room earlier as he heard it all. I kept asking her not to do this in front of him but that enraged her further.
    Finally I let her back in to sleep in a room at the opposite end of the house and she left before he was up. Now he is at school and I am at work pretending nothing has happened.
    She was so physically violent to me this time. As she cornered me a few times I did fight back as she was pushing and threatening me. I tried to push her awy and grabbed her to puch her off me. I have bruises this morning from where she pinned me against the wall.
    I am not going to cry this time. I am not going to apologise like she ofen makes me do. Like many of you I am sitting here wondering why I am even allowing myself to stay in this situation. Why I am questioning my own actions? How do they twist everything around then make us feel that bad guy? From the outside it is easy….leave….from th inside not so clear.

  236. to anon:
    Leave, you have no other option. I know BDP People hate to hear this but: run away. You have a son and this makes it difficult. I also have a daughter but after 6 years of verbal and physical abuse I threw her out of my house. I gave her half an hour to take some stuff and forced her out. I knew that she will have the child. I knew that the daughter will now have to bear the brunt of her behavior. But had to rescue myself. The other option was to kill myself. I tried everything and it didn’t work. They do not change without any self reflection it only gets worse.
    Maybe in the future I can rescue our child. But if I’m destroyed now I will be of no use for my child in the future. Same to you.

  237. Borderline Personality Disorder is the most difficult to understand and diagnose mental illnesses. As a consequence there is little awareness of its existence in the general public. If there were greater awareness, more resources would be brought to the table to help these people. I believe the biggest problem is its name. “Borderline” means nothing in helping us understand the condition. I have proposed that we change the name to Faultfinding Personality Disorder based on the most important diagnostic criterion – chronic finding of fault with themselves and others due to their black-and-white thinking which leads to disturbed interpersonal relationships. To back this up I wrote the book “Faultfinders: The impact of borderline personality disorder.” I explained the condition using examples of numerous famous people to make the symptoms memorable. I would be interested to hear what others think about a possible name change.

  238. A name change wouldn’t help. I can only speak for myself. Before I had direct contakt with it I could never imagine there is some mental illness that makes people lash out exclusively against their “loved ones” behind closed doors. And then simply say it’s your fault you’ve been verbally abused or beaten by me or even say it simply didn’t happen. Who could imagine a thing like this? I couldn’t.

  239. Hi

    I just wanted to say, that if you think there’s something wrong with you, find help.
    I went to therapy thinking I don’t know what’s wrong with me, but I knew I wasn’t okay. I was then diagnosed bpd.
    I’ve only been to therapy for a year and a half and I’ve gotten so much better managing my mood swings. I sometimes still lose it, but I pull myself back together more easily and I understand myself better, I understand others better.
    Yes, bpd-s can be abusive, it’s a shame, I felt terrible shame, but I didn’t know what to do about my thoughts and behaviour. Get help and educate yourself, train yourself. Find help as soon as you can and get to it, find a therapist that truly knows bpd and specialises in dialectical behaviour therapy or cognitive behaviour therapy.
    You got sick during this life, this means you can get better during this life. I promise. Just don’t give up, never give up. You need to become your own best friend, because you are with you all the time. You deserve to get better!
    Therapy and hard work helped me be a friend to myself.

  240. Hi all!

    First of all, congratulations for the amazing article and comments! Really very helpful!

    I’m with my girlfriend for a little more than a year now and I suffered from 9 breakups in our relationship. She is who broke up all the times, and at the same time she never expected me to really leave her, this is pretty much clear to me.

    I’ve had really terrible times been harshly accused for all the problems in the universe, in her life, and in my own. She says really very hurtful things about me and my normal life problems (everybody have problems, and mine are nothing different from usual).

    I’ve researched a LOT on psychology issues and I’ve found that she have a lot of symptoms from BPD and extremely low self esteem.

    One night when she was very drunk, she said me that she was almost diagnosed with BPD (she is on therapy for last 7 years), and she is ashamed, she’s a trash and have nothing to offer anyone in this world.

    I felt so bad for her and that only made me intensify my research on this matter.

    I know that deep inside her is a very sweet, gentle, kind and lovely girl who just want to feel safe and live happy. And I can imagine the pain that’s inside her…she have such a bad time trying to trust anyone, including me…

    I really love her and I’m doing everything to grow stronger to help her better and not to let her outbursts hurt me. I’m studying, meditating, growing spiritually to be her best support in this life.

    I know I could just walk away and find other woman that makes me more comfortable and happy, like my friends and family say to me. But I chose to be at her side no matter what…you must seethe indescribable mix of pain, hurt, sadness and fear in her eyes when she have this outbursts and attack me fiercely.

    So the message to those who really love someone suffering from BPD:

    Don’t ever judge them. If you’re at their side, it was only your choice, don’t ever throw this on their face. And to help you keep going, grow from inside out, make yourselves stronger as a person.

    And to finish, DO NOT pay attention to their words and actions, but to their feelings! This is were is their true message during their outbursts.

    See and eel their emotions, nothing more, and you may even find a person more lovely than you.

  241. My Girlfriend has BPD. Her fits of rage manifest themselves towards me and her 2 children predominantly.
    I try to understand, to calm her, to be patient, but realistically, being at the sharp end of a rage attack time after time is wearing, hurtful, damaging and is starting to have a negative affect on my health and happiness.
    I am however, scared to leave the relationship. It will reinforce her abandonment issues, cause her great pain, and mostly, leave her two children to bear the brunt of her rage attacks.
    To support somebody with BPD and still remain mentally healthy and happy is an almost impossible task. I for one, do not think that in the long term I am up to the task.

  242. I have read through every single post and I must say it has been a great help for me. I am a 30 yr old woman and have been in a relationship with a 39 yr old undiagnosed man for about a year and half. It was great in the beginning, perfect almost then about 5 months in that’s when things started to change. I had no idea what was wrong with him and didn’t realize what he had until a couple of days ago. It has been at least a year of pure hell for me at this point.

    He can not make it more than a week and a half without an episode. That’s with him trying to change as he says, otherwise it would be sooner until the next episode. A week ago I told him that I hope he does the things he does on purpose because if he’s doing it without knowing that he’s doing it then I feel really sad for him. After reading here I think that he isn’t fully aware of his condition however, I just can’t believe that he has not seen the change in me since the beginning of our relationship. I now suffer from depression as a result of this relationship and have never been treated this way in my life.

    Everything is my fault, he has been physically abusive in the past, he has damaged my home, contacts my friends when I don’t speak to him after his episodes, he’s embarrassed me in public too many times to count, he sends me 70+ texts each time when he is in a rage all degrading and dehumanizing things that are unimaginable along with it all being my fault. He is very insecure controlling and jealous and accuses me of things I’ve never even done or said, he’s gone through all of my things in my home when I was not home, he treats strangers with respect and kindness and trusts them all while telling me I’m a user and abuser and can’t be trusted, he doesn’t respect my feelings at all, he’s even gotten upset with me for taking my daughter and her friend on a play date because he needed my attention, he’s accused me of cheating when I went to my aunt’s funeral, AND he has a drinking problem as a result of trying to cope with bpd which makes it worse when he’s drinking.

    He rarely apologizes and it’s always my fault I feel as though he is a child not a soon to be 40 yr old man and it’s sad. He says he will change and begs me to stay each time I try to leave but can never seem to change. I am just figuring this all out sadly wish I could have known about bpd sooner. I’m on day two of no contact with him and plan on moving as soon as I can find a different job because I worked with him in his business until I just took a leave of absence yesterday. I know I have to leave him!! Thankfully I have not included him in my child’s life and for good reason however its going to be hard for me to explain why we are moving and I know she can tell I’m depressed.

    I’m leaving because no matter what I do to please him it’s never enough and all of my energy is constantly being drained by this man and I’m completely unhappy I cannot even show any emotion towards him at this point although I do love him!!! I can’t sacrifice myself at his expense he says he does these things because he’s afraid of losing me well that’s exactly what’s going to happen because he pushed me to my limit and I cannot take it anymore.

    My partner passed away few years ago and I had hopes of getting remarried and having another child at some point. I wanted to be with someone who is not only a partner but a friend as this is the way it should be. Mr. BPD is emotionally disconnected and cannot seem to relate to what I’m saying when I tell him he should be my friend as well as a partner but says he wants to get married and begs me to have a child with him. He says how much he loves me but only cares about himself. This relationship with him has effected me emotionally, mentally and physically and I’m a very strong person. He’s always asking me to trust him when I feel the complete opposite that he cannot be trusted.
    At first I thought I would give him an ultimatum get help or I’m leaving. I will not I’m just leaving.

    1. Hell Lauren,

      Thanks for sharing your story and sorry for your troubles. Leaving is the right thing to do.

      The mental and physical health of BOTH you and your child depend on it. If possible stay with friends or family while transitioning for safety. Call the police if any stalking behavior begins. Do not mince words if you do call, police resources are thin and any hesitant requests are ignored. Be clear you fear for your safety.

      More likely, you will struggle with the breakup of the relationship and lost time. Group therapy and counseling should help. Take each day as it comes. As your head clears, you will realize there’s nothing you can do for your boyfriend. Seeking treatment is incumbent on them.

      Good luck and best wishes.

  243. So, yes, I am one of “those” with BPD and PTSD. I have been raised to literally hate myself, as I was my mothers emotional punching bag, brothers physical punching bag, and well, more.

    For a very long time in my life, I did not understand why I would feel so offended by the smallest little incident, such as a person cutting in line, or any slight for that matter. OH BOY was it worse if I were in a relationship…

    I would dwell on something so small, for so long. I didnt understand, how I could endure much throughout my life, but a small insignificant incident could trigger me to shake with adrenaline, stutter my words, and literally turn red with anger.

    I started meditating, without knowing to try, soul searching on myself and of others. Thinking about others, others intentions, then me and my thoughts and intentions… then the question: What did I EXPECT of others?
    I started to practice that thought. “What do i EXPECT of that person?”
    When it didnt match, i would feel hurt.
    Why would i feel hurt? Cause they did not meet my EXPECTATIONS. Why did i think of them as “they dont care” or “i’m worthless” when things didnt go my way?
    There was a whole lot of questions that i would ask and answer when i notice i’ve been triggered. It helped me to communicate with words instead of tantrums or emotions.
    After practice, I’m such a peaceful person now, at least from others view. I still have anxiety at times, fluxed adrenaline, turmoil and dark thoughts, however I recognize them as dirt on a wall to be cleaned, not an overwhelming tsunami to overtake my existence. I take a moment to calm down, as long as i need, and to not react on those feelings.

    I am now in a relationship with someone that often gets out of control. I’ve been there. I can handle him, more than he can handle himself.

    What goes around comes around.

    As for how to deal with others? well, i cant honestly tell you how to deal with me 😀 I have had therapy, where they’ve pretty much told me to keep up what i’m doing. Meditation, relfective thought. Feel the emotion, dont let it rule you.

    A kind of long mantra/thought i go through:

    I dont trust you to live up to my expectations, and i dont expect you to trust me either.
    I would like to have you around me, to make passing time a little more pleasant.
    If i dont like you, or you dont like me, i will easily walk away. No trouble, no anger, just goodbye.
    I place my hope and expectations in myself, to become better, stronger, and to find happiness within my being.

    1. Hello Jean,

      Thanks for a wonderful and hopeful comment. You offer some ways for Borderlines to improve, while taking a healthy view of the world. The emotional reactivity is the most troubling aspect of the condition. Few understand it and almost none will tolerate it. Improving this feeling is a lifelong task. It gets better with age and wisdom

      Thanks for sharing your mantra and meditation!

  244. Hey guys,

    I ended up on this blog because I was trying to calm myself down from my mom’s bpd rage. I keep coming to the realization that I’m always trying to prove myself to her, that Im not that bad of a person. Then I also feel I have to justify the fact that I talk about my feelings with other people regarding her. To her, it’s unthinkable and disloyal. But to me, it’s survival, it helps me get through those sad moments after she rages at me.

    I guess maybe someone with BPD could answer this, what do we do when we get baited into an argument where we’re defending ourselves while we’re being split? When I try to end conversation, she says something else to pull me back in. And I get baited and have a hard time disconnecting. I tried to remember it’s an illness and it’s coming from a dark place, but it’s hard to deal when you’re being split.

    THanks guys. I appreciate your blog OP, i like that both BPD and non BPD can come together and talk to understand each other.

  245. This forum has been incredibly informative
    And I’m relieved that I stumbled upon it. My youngest son was just recently married to the girl of his dreams. They had lived together for two years, recently bought a beautiful home, and are expecting a child in one month. They were living a perfect life…or so I thought:

    Two nights ago, 10:30 pm, I get a text from my son. Says he needs to talk to me, asks if he can come over and that he really needs me. Of course I jump out of bed, text him back and tell him to come right over. A million things go through my mind. Something has happened to the baby. They are splitting up. He lost his job. Something horrible.

    He comes into the house and wails in the most tortured sounding voice, sobbing hysterically saying “I don’t deserve this! I don’t deserve this!” I actually was terrified and yelled to snap him out of this meltdown. I yelled and said stop! Tell me what’s wrong! Is the baby okay? The look on his face was like I had slapped him. He looked hurt. But he calmed down. He said the baby was fine but that his wife didn’t think things were going to work out. I was flabbergasted. They had just got married three months ago. I asked what was going on. He told me she was texting her ex and was speaking to him behind his back. My heart broke for him of course. This discussion went in for ten minutes or so as I tried to understand why she would do something like this, why they got married etc.

    Suddenly he says, but all this is really my fault. I’m terrible to her. I treat her so bad, Mom, and she doesn’t deserve it. He said he breaks things, punches holes in walls, keeps her up for three nights to sleep deprive her. I was at a loss for words. My first thought was –What has this woman done to my son???

    I asked him how long this had been going on. He said before the wedding. I asked why they went through with the whole thing which was a destination wedding and cost everyone tons of money, time and preparation (obviously I didn’t need to make matters worse but I was mad about the charade). He said they both thought things would get better after wedding.

    After a few hours of talking about possible causes (I was convinced it was his wife’s fault still) he went to bed in our guest room.

    He stated two days and we really didn’t discuss much more. I was still reeling from my own heart breaking did his devastating pain of his marriage akready crumbling. Finally I text his wife. Tell her my son had shared that he had “anger issues” and that I hoped all was well with her and baby. She sent me a barrage of text messages explaining what she had been enduring. Said he has vicious terrifying rages that we’re getting worse and that she feared for her and their unborn child’s lives. That he has been this way since she’s met him. That she loved him and thought she could fix him (she is a
    Masters prepared RN) but that she could t take it anymore. That she hadn’t called police because she didn’t want him to have legal problems and she didn’t wasn’t him committed to the local mental institution. Of course I was blindsided. I cried. How could this intelligent, kind, generous, loving son be capable of this? I wondered if she had brainwashed him, making him believe he was crazy. She was the one texting her ex…what man wouldn’t be jealous? She was the one who slights him and puts him down, even refused to put their wedding photo on her FB profile but put the photo of her and her bridesmaids instead… of he would snap.

    I made a million excuses up for him but ultimately I think he is BPD and she just triggers him. Probably does it because she’s sick of dealing with him by now. Who know. I’m just going to try to convince him to seek therapy.

    Question: Counselor or Psychiatrist or Psychologist?

    1. Dear Mother of a BPD,

      Sorry to hear about your family’s troubles, and hope your son has stabilized.

      Psychologist to answer your question. Few psychiatrists offer both meds and therapy. They will generally have a long intake appointment to assess a patient’s needs for medication, followed by 15 minute “med checks” indefinitely. If you’re in the USA, psychologists often have more time to speak with patients, up to 1 hour. Ultimately, psychiatrists refer patients to psychologists for ongoing therapy anyway.

      Personality disorders tend to affect relationships with everyone, not just a significant other. Have you, too, experienced his rage, violence, threats and manipulative behavior? Has his father, siblings, friends or neighbors witnessed the same? I was struck this all came out of the blue. Are you in regular contact with him or is your family separated?

      To be sure, the best witnesses would be close friends, former lovers and any roommates. BPDs can fool casual acquaintances into thinking they are quite normal.

      Regardless therapy will be essential. But try to gather as much information as possible. Personality disorders tend to blossom in late adolescence/early adulthood. Thus this wouldn’t be something which would go unnoticed until a major breakup. Usually others in the BPDs life can see this coming.

      I’m happy to answer further questions, best of luck.

  246. Thank you for your prompt response especially regarding the best type of medical professional to seek.

    To answer your question, yes I saw signs of this before. He was always super sensitive to any perceived criticisms during childhood. He demanded constant attention when he spoke. If we looked away he’d literally ask why we weren’t listening he wanted eye contact and or verbalizatiins that we were fully engaged at all times. If he felt insulted he would demand an apology whether we felt we’d done anything wrong. He didn’t break anything or verbally assault us but he was an exhausting child. He did have one “meltdown” when he was about 15. He was mad that one of his brothers had said something derogatory toward him (we were all super nice and attentive to him so we wouldn’t hurt his feelings) but this remark really got to him and it took my husband and his older brothers to hold him down. I let him know how badly that had made me feel, that I was embarrassed by his behavior, as we had extended family visiting that day and they witnessed this. Never happened again. So apparently he’s kept this “rage” in check when he is around us.

    I figured he was just spoiled (youngest) and that he’d outgrown his “tantrums.”

    We do live in the same city and see him pretty often and I’ve never suspected these problems were happening. He has always been a high achiever in everything he’s done. Successful in school, great job, etc. He has kept this hidden so well.

    I do notice he’s never had close friends to hang out with and really has nobody to talk to outside of us and his wife. She said that’s a problem because he is so clingy and needs her to be with him at all times and she’s exhausted. He is still staying with us and everything is in limbo. I’m not the best the person to discuss this with because because I feel myself judging him and feeling disgusted with this “flaw.” I’m sure he can tell and so we are kind of acting like all is well. I wish I didn’t feel like that but I do. I just wish I had the capacity to hug him tight and let him feel unconditional love but I just get mad that he had me fooled thinking he was this loving person (which he is to me) but in reality he has this Dr Jekyll Mr Hyde personality. If he can control it at work and around us (other than the one time), why wouldn’t he control it for his wife & baby’s sake? Is it because she allows it? If she yelled at him and let him know how she won’t tolerate that behavior, wouldn’t that make him keep it in check?

    1. Hi, thanks for the additional information. That fills things in. However, I really can’t help with a diagnosis and would highly recommend visiting a psychologist. Some criteria of BPD are there, others aren’t.

      I used to think of BPD based on DSM IV, which required at least 5 of 9 criteria to identify a patient, since I was diagnosed many years ago. After the DSM V publication in 2013, the criteria are different. Certain pervasive issues are combined and differentiated.

      Here’s a good explanation: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/here-there-and-everywhere/201112/borderline-personality-disorder-big-changes-in-the-dsm-5

      Any number of personality issues could be at work, so it’s best to speak with a therapist. It’s also possible his wife is codependent, which would predispose her to putting up with bad behavior longer than others. Of course, codependency is more complicated than that, but codependents partnered with BPDs all report excessive abuse of boundaries, well beyond their management capabilities.

      This is a critical time. I would advise refraining from any judgment, confrontation or “tough love”. Just be there for now. Make sure he’s safe. If you need to work through your own feelings, leave the house and speak with a trusted friend or go for a walk.

      It’s imperative you encourage him to get to a psychologist to talk about the incident. Not about “him” and “his problems”. But about how to work through it. Be an ally in that regard, but keep vigilant. If things get out of control, call an ambulance for an emergency commitment. This is a safe and loving thing to do.

      Mental health professionals are well versed in managing tough patients. They do it everyday. Speaking to a new, trusting person is better than working it out “in house” among the family, where there are likely other conflicts buried beneath the surface. It’s a fresh place to start amid the chaos.

      Good Luck.

  247. I was in a relationship for 2 years with a woman that fits the description of BPD. She has been seeing a psychiatrist for 10 years. It’s been an emotionally draining experience.

    You get sucked in and make excuses for their bad behavior. She could be depressed, irritable and angry at the smallest things, like not finding a particular item in the house. She would often redirect that anger onto me, finding a way to somehow link her inability to my wrong doing. Recently her abuse has become physical in nature. Despite her tell me that she was too sweet to ever hurt anyone physically.

    Finally she has manipulated me into giving up my interests or seeing friends because of jealousy for not spending time with her.

    It feels like being with a 12 year old child who can’t get their way. In an argument she would bring up every small slight or wrong doing i have done in the past, despite being totally irrelevant to the current issue.

    She also would say stuff like “you don’t love me, if you did you would tell me every single day” Often making suicidal gestures, putting her hand towards her throat.

    I only started to look at this situation from an external point of view , doing my own research. I am now able to see how blind i was to stay in this toxic situation and enabling her bad behavior to continue.

    I have cut ties with her a couple of days ago. Not surprisingly she has called/texted me multiple times. I would also not be surprised if she bad mouthed me to other people.

  248. Hi,
    I’ve been in a relationship with a man who is clearly showing signs of BPD and maybe some mild NPD. He has hit me, abused me verbally, psychologically and then he loves me unconditionally only that a small sparkle will re-ignite the hell cycle all over again.
    He’s been telling me that he is sorry and that he will go to a therapist, he has but stopped after a while
    A year and a half has passed and we seem to argue more than we are having fun and happy times.
    I find it impossible to stay and yet impossible to go. I love him and I feel hope everytime he comes back and asks for forgiveness but then he goes back on engaging in the same behavior over and over and over again.
    How does he expect me to stay with him? Or maybe he doesnt? When it is a time to call it quits? Maybe that will actually make him to go and see a therapist?
    I know that he loves me, I have no question about that, but I am not sure that I can deal with his instability, rudeness and violent outbursts for ever. I am 45 and can’t waste any more time…yet I do love him but he doesnt seem to understand that. Most of the tantrums are due to jealousy from his part…
    What can I do that it is all because of his inner thoughts/ How can I convince him that he needs to see a therapist?
    I have tried leaving him, but I can’t…However, I think I might have to. It is becoming impossible to live with him

  249. This is garbage to me. I have PTSD, suffer from severe depression, have been incarcerated, faced 10 years at minimum for a crime I didn’t do, been shot, have had friends murdered in front of me,kicked out of the house in elementary school, etc and I’m not out here going bezerk on people.

    I’m dealing with a woman who’s going through this and it’s like, how many times can one tolerate being told F you, extremely loud yelling, throwing things, stomping, embarrassing me in my community?

    It’s all an excuse. You can control it. It’ not like you’re high on PCP or something. Get it together, DAMN!

  250. Admin and NM, I read all your comments, and most of those written by the rest, and it was very elucidating and supporting. I am now in the process of taking the decision if I am strong and patient enough to provide lasting support for a person suffering from BPD. Or should I follow the advice of my friends (among whom there are doctors and even a psychiatrist) saying all that can be done with BPD people is to stay as far from them as possible.
    I have been through a lot with her already during 3 and half a year, so I realise well what it entails. I see her deteriorating. She is in a turning point in her life: graduated (without obtaining her MA) and seems unable to get any job (nor the MA). Now we are not living together in one place (we are quite far actually, but in everyday contact) and I see it as a chance (easier to avoid being targeted or provoked, less fear of “engulfment” on her part). I see people abandoning her (in most cases as a result of her own actions, which they see as manipulation) and I don’t want to be another one to do it, but if so, I must be properly prepared.
    My main problem for now is that I feel I shouldn’t “diagnose” her. She attended meetings with a psychiatrist, but resigned (trust issues). The reason why she decided on psychiatric treatment was major depression and suicidality. She has never been officially diagnosed with BPD, but as for me from the 9 DSM criteria, she fulfils 8. I believe it would be better for her to know that she is not “defective”, “ungrateful”, “not worthy of living” or “evil” (as she sees herself), but that she suffers from a condition that other people have too, that has been described and ways to cope with it have been invented, and – what is the most important – that can be treated, at least to achieve some improvement.
    I tried to suggest or hint reading on BPD to her by leaving articles or YT recordings in the search suggestions history (sometimes she gets paranoid and looks through my searches history) or by referring in our written correspondence to typical expressions employed to describe BPD, like “identitylessness” or “emotional dysregulation” that I know she identifies with – in the hope that she would google for it and find information on BPD. But I have no feedback. Simply asking her would almost amount to “diagnosing” – at least for her. Now I’m thinking: maybe I should buy Marsha Linehan’s book, just leave it somewhere in view or read it when we meet in the same place and tell her I found it on bookcrossing shelf.
    There is also a strong argument against informing her on my supposition: in our countries (east Europe) the personality disorders and especially BPD have VERY “bad PR” (as I quoted my friends above), the very name is almost equal to an insult and it might be very difficult to find any specialist who would undertake to treat it. But, as for reading, all the sources in English are available to her.
    Do you have any suggestions if I should try harder/try at all/speak openly to tell her that I think what makes her suffer so much, might be BPD?

    1. Hi Jagna,

      Please be very careful diagnosing and supporting someone with BPD. Remember, it is up to the person with BPD to see a doctor, get treatment and improve themselves. I also worry you are committing yourself to an enormous expense of precious physical and emotional energy.

      Here are a few thoughts:

      1. Is your emotional generosity preventing the BPD person from getting their own help? Meaning, does your care-taking keep them away from therapy, because you support them as they are?

      2. Can you personally afford to wait 7,10 or 15 years for them to get better? I call this “waiting in prison”. You will forgo many opportunities, including realizing your own happiness, while you wait for another person to get their life together.

      3. How do your friends and family feel about your decision? If they aren’t aware of it, what do you think their reaction will be?

      4. What are your boundaries with the BPD person? If you don’t have any, write some down and NEVER allow them to be crossed.

      5. Do YOU have any unresolved issues with former lovers, family or parents which are pushing you into a care-taking role?

      I wish you the best and please reply. Every comment helps others.

  251. Admin,
    yes, I don’t think myself in a position to diagnose my friend, and even less to tell her about it – I’m not prepared to handle her possible reaction. Still I believe it might be somehow fortifying for her to know it is not “intrinsic evil” in her, but a “condition”. She was meeting a psychiatrist, but gave it up, so there is no hope anyone would do the diagnosing, but I’m not a specialist. She is so young and it is heartbreaking for me to see how she is throwing herself from one place to another as if she was constantly running away, offending and alienating well-wishing people on her way, cannot find a safe place for herself, interchangeably raging and crying for hours or days, feeling guilty and unworthy of living, unable to get any job to support herself when she is really tallented.
    I don’t think it is so much energy on my part put into any support as I am really able to offer, when compared to what it usually looks like in such relations. We have our separate lives now, we are quite far apart in geographical terms, also I’m “splitted” currently – counted among this majority who “don’t understand and only accuse her” because I’m insisting on her seeing the psychiatrist or at least taking the andidepressants she was prescribed (she doesn’t).
    So what I can do is not so much: talk to her when she needs, try to understand, try to support her in her efforts, try to be something stable ant trustworthy in her flickering, liquid life. I am worried though by what NM says that borderlines only value those who treat them bad as they treat others. How could I be of any support if she doesn’t respect me because I’m choosing to be patient with her.
    So, as for your first question: no, I’m trying to accept her with her “condition”, just to show her she is wanted in this world, but I’m clear that only therapy would make it easier to live in it.
    also to question 2: I it is not me “waiting in prison”, because my life goes independently of hers, it’s just that I want to choose to be “emotionally available” and try to not cancel her from my life (as others do) because she is so very difficult (but I value her very much for her other features).
    3. No, I said before: my friends are of the opinion that people with personality disorders are harmful and should be avoided.
    The fourth of your questions is very difficult for me. The Internet is full of strong advice that the boundaries should be set and kept, but nobody says how exactly. OK, I don’t want to be abused or even shouted at, to take the simplest example. So what do I do: she is living at my home as my guest, studying (and it’s important that she does it), thousand kilometers from her home or any other home that would host her, with no money and no support. I communicate clearly, I stress that she is responsible for how she chooses to act towards me, I leave to another room, refuse to speak while she is violent. But what if it isn’t enough? I strongly hesitate to just kick her out, keeping in mind her impulsive decisions, often leading to very real danger to her basic physical safety.
    Or: we are talking on the phone, she is trying to “triangulate” me into a conflict with a third person (who is “splitted” at the moment), I refuse, she gets upset and I see she really believes it when she accuses me of lack of understanding, not having enough love for her, she is withdrawing, genuinely feeling hurt, abandoned.
    question 5: I have no idea 🙂 I know many people who believe ANY loyalty to people who are in any way burdening (even despite being very rewarding on other accounts) must be making up for some deficits or past unresolved issues.

  252. Well, BOO HOO… The BPD woman is hell on wheels….

    I’m sick, my Mommy didn’t love me…

    Who cares… Read articles written by Shari Schreiber. You are TERRIBLE PEOPLE…

  253. Hello everyone I have been with a man for 6 months now that shows signs of BPD, one minute he is nice and caring the next minute he is flying off the handle for the smallest things like me forgetting to buy his cookies (yes seriously). I don’t know how to help him I love him very much but the hot and cold is tearing me up. He is very abrasive likes to rule our conversations, I can never give my point of view without him getting mad, he has no other healthy relationships with anyone and everybody is out to get him including his co-workers. How do I tell him he needs to see a therapist or make him realize he has a problem?

  254. To Ryan.
    “How do I tell him he needs to see a therapist or make him realize he has a problem?”
    You won’t succeed.
    Other have spent years and tried every method they could imagine – and they failed. It’s a waste of time in my experience.
    I know how pessimistic this sounds but I wished I spent those years with something else, something useful.
    And even if you get him to see a therapist (I also had high hopes in this regard):
    Either they play the “poor child” and it works, or you are responsible for their abusive behavior. Or even if it’s a good therapist it doensn’t help if the BPD can’t cahnge his ways in everyday life. Or only in such a minor way that your life is still hell on earth.
    You see it’s a long long road… you want this to be your life?

  255. “I went to Dr. Todd with a heavy heart knowing my girlfriend would never come back. Four weeks and several hundred dollars later she DID come back due to his specialized work. This was after I had already thrown away six thousand dollars on fakes, email (manifest spell cast@g mail.com) he the best”

    Jerry Bernstein

  256. To Matthias: Are you saying that they are just destined to live alone then? I mean if the other person just can’t handle dealing with it? That’s what it sounds like. I understand completely what you are saying but it sounds like the other person will never get any relief and staying in the relationship or marriage is pointless. I have suffered serious health issues both emotional and physical due to the rage and abuse over many years. It seems that they want to destroy you and make you feel as miserable as they are, so on some level they seem really twisted knowing this about themselves and also wanting this for you. Do they ever feel empathy for what they have done? My husband has absolutely no empathy for me whatsoever, ever. I stayed far too long hoping he would get help. It tears families apart and I wish I had known sooner, I would advise anyone this.

    I appreciate the truthfulness of this blog immensely and have great empathy for those suffering from this who refuse help (and those who do seek help), but it will not be at the expense of me and my children.

  257. I am a non-BPD, sandwiched between two generations of BPDs. My mother was BPD/NPD and one of my three special needs daughters is BPD as well.

    Lucky me.

    Of course, I have had lifelong boundary issues, but they have been mostly overcome with years of therapy. What I want to say is that while most assume that the BPD is caused by some sort of childhood trauma, that is not always the case. In my particular family, the BPDs have caused trauma but never been subjected to any. It runs through my family like a river. I am sure that they will someday find out that it is genetic in nature, or at least biological.

    My BPDs are like terrorists. You go to the therapy. You use the correct verbiage. You set healthy boundaries. Then they punish you for it. This is not what they want, except for the part where they are the total focus of everyone’s life. Boundaries? Pshaw! Boundaries merely limit and cage the BPD and that is not acceptable to them.

    They will use any person place or thing to get their particularly odd needs met. They take hostages.

    While the therapist will tell you that they self-harm in order to “release their inner pain”, I have watched as they cut themselves. They are not releasing anything by this act. They are calculating at all times the impact it will have on their target audience and what their net gain will be in power. I’ve seen it in action.

    They don’t feel emotions in the same way as the rest of the world. What they mean by “love” is not the same as what the rest of us mean. They cannot possibly feel love the way the rest of us do, because that would mean that other people have needs, have rights, are equal to the BPD. They aren’t….ever. To the most benign and striving for well-being BPD, we are actors on their stage. We are puppets in their show. We are a means to whatever end they are seeking at any given time. They will never, and CANNOT ever, feel for you what you feel for them. It isn’t part of their toolbox. The worst thing you can ever do for yourself or your BPD is to try to assign YOUR feelings to THEM. It isn’t true, and you only cause harm to both by doing so. If your BPD is kind and loving, do not assume that they feel love for you in the same way that you feel love for them. Their love is always conditional. Their kindness is always outcome-based. Even when they are working hard in therapy, they are directors and the rest of humanity is the cast. Flub your lines and you will find out very quickly just how much all of that therapy has helped. They are always looking for a payout, a specific (and quite often chaotic) denouement, and you will never understand it. It will never make you happy because you are not the one that is important to the BPD….they are.

    I had to completely cut off all contact with my mother when my children were young to try to stop the emotional and mental abuse to myself and my children. She died, alone, after taking her elderly sister down a nasty little rabbit hole where my aunt ended up penniless and homeless. I found out a year later when I was rescuing my aunt from the horrible situation my mother had placed her in.

    My daughter, well, I am still wrestling with that. I now have grandchildren to try to protect. Many of them. All from different fathers that were in terrible, dramatic relationships with their mom. Their needs, of course, are never met unless someone else in the family sees the problem and solves it. Trying to find out and meet those needs is always a real fun time, since one has to step carefully to make the BPD want that action to happen, and you have to be very careful not to imply, even by accident that it was the BPDs fault in any way. If you somehow manage to mishandle the situation, you are treated to a viscous rage and the children are the ones that suffer. I imagine I’ll be doing this from my wheelchair at the old-age home, because I don’t see any way that it will change.

    I am sorry if any BPD finds this comment harsh. I realize that my situation is just that…MY SITUATION…and that they may be different. While I have heard the sentiment “BPDs feel empty because they have no soul.”, I do not ascribe to that. It is hyperbole. The one thing you don’t need when you are in any kind of relationship with a BPD is more drama. I truly hope that those in therapy and working to better themselves have great success and support them and feel grateful for their attempt.

    But IMHO, anyone who stays involved with a BPD out of their own choice should seek help, for they have issues that need fixing.

    1. Hi Gizmo, thanks for an excellent and thorough comment. Your words aren’t too harsh. It characterizes a BPD who, even with therapy, is still not aware of how they operate in the world. I think a “late stage BPD” in the twilight of their struggle might be more mindful. They may see people as “actors on their stage”, but at least realize they are trying to direct. Then carefully acknowledge any error with people they care about so that relationships will be more balanced, authentic and loving.

      Are you codependent by chance? Or was your therapy meant to address the real trauma you must feel with so many disarrayed people in your life? Many people get involved with BPDs, but those who stick around longer than necessary tend to have their own issues. To be clear, not to the extent of the BPD, rather just trying to compensate, love and/or fix the person. Not unlike a flawed parent, sibling or lover.

  258. I meant to add this:

    I stated above that I believe that they will someday find that personality disorders are biology based, and probably located in the Fornix area of the brain. BPD, I suspect, is a dysfunction of the ego, or sense of self. BPD sufferers have a distorted sense of themselves vs. everyone else. It causes them intense discomfort and emotional pain, as if they are behind a pane of glass looking out at the rest of the world. They feel alone, but are unable to see others as partners or equals. It is an unsolvable problem for them. Most, if not all, of their behaviors are their attempt to connect, to break the glass, to become a member of society. Because of the ego distortion, their attempts only isolate them further.

    It is sad to watch and overwhelming to be involved in directly.

    1. Hi Gizmo, can you elaborate on the ego problem? What is truly painful is wanting to connect but not knowing how. I think Marsha Linehan’s DBT attempts to bridge this gap in a very deliberate manner.

      In some ways, it’s like getting into a relationship with a recovering addict. Ideally the addict will disclose their sobriety and recovery. Hopefully the addict is far enough along that their most destructive behaviors are behind them. If the partner understands the “risks” of the relationship and the attendant baggage, I’m optimistic it could work.

      The addict’s partner must be vigilant for any problematic behavior after the relationship has been established. People will act out when things are good because they don’t fear abandonment. And of course they’ll act out when thing are bad due to normal relationship stressors.

  259. To answer your first question, yes. Yes, I have been codependent….to an art form. Much of my therapy has dealt with those issues. One therapist called it my “female Jesus complex”, lol. I spent a great deal of my life attempting to rescue and fix many people and four-legged friends. I’m a lot better these days, but the impulse persists.

    As far as the ego ruminations go, I feel that the BPDs that I have known do not have a realistic sense of who they are and who others are. I think that even with a lot of therapy, they think, at a deep level, that others are not like them, that they are unequal. They try to “absorb” the people that they are closest to, and when the other people resist or don’t fit exactly, that they then feel frustration, loss and contempt. Some feel shame for this, but all of their emotions are at their root about the self. Not about the other.

    They want to connect, but on their terms. They want to, at an inner, deep, unexamined level, consume rather than connect. To merge rather than coexist or complement.

    Their approach, therefore, will never produce more than an image of what they wish to project or wish to be, not an actual feeling an actual change of self.

    This is why I think that it is a brain dysfunction probably located in the Fornix, where our “self” is contained. Something is different for BPDs that makes them unable to let others be others and themselves…themselves. To a BPD, there must be a merging, an I’m OK, you’re the same as me or else you are defective. (instead of I’m OK you’re OK, if you didn’t get the reference) Most often the BPD becomes angry that the target isn’t exactly who they want them to be and this leads to relationship dysfunction.

    Even when the BPD is mindful, is sincerely and aggressively doing therapy, he/she is always not on the same page as the rest of humanity, because he is not capable of such a thing. His brain is different, his self-image does not allow him to value that which is different. He does not feel that others have different but still valid feelings. Feelings that do not match his are just plain invalid and sometimes they make him angry. It’s a conundrum.

  260. Addendum to my above comment:

    Many of those with BPD who pursue therapy will come to a place where they can tolerate other’s differences, but they never seem to get to a place where they actually *value* differences. Many don’t even recognize that toleration is not acceptance or validation.

    1. Interesting thoughts. This sounds almost like NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) in some ways, but for the “devouring” part, which is part of the BPD mystique. NPDs tend to bowl through and dispose with high use and little consumption, if you will.

      I fully agree regarding the distorted sense of self and not fully understanding others. My own confusion lies with determining who I actually am and not what society, others or family wants me to be. At least that was the superficial struggle. Deep down, it is more of an identity disturbance.

      I find slight social disagreements – while not a big deal in passing – send a part of my brain down a vortex of self examination, recrimination and readying return-fire for future use against the other person should I get truly provoked. Well that’s no way to live life, of course. And it can bleed out subconsciously. I also find people shy away from playfully teasing me. I only allow teasing on my own terms, preferring self-deprecation as my ante into the pot of social exchange. I’m well aware of this and don’t know how to readily change it. Others pick up on it eventually or just lose interest in me. That’s part of the window pane you mentioned previously.

      It could be a brain difference, since there is evidence of mental health problems in my family. My mother is some combination of NPD/BPD, probably more NPD because I haven’t witnessed any blatant manipulative self harm. But I’ll have to ply my memory to be sure. So a genetic component surely exists. I have at least one codependent sibling. My father is likely codependent, his emotions are buried deep beneath layers of a faux macho persona that simply doesn’t add up in my mind. Deep down I suspect he is much more caring than he admits, and much more than he can verbalize or show.

      If there was a happy island us BPDs, in varying stages of recovery, could live, I would go. But alas the world is but one. So my own social anxiety comes in handy, because it keeps me at arm’s length from others. The less potential damage, the better.

      But I am still hopeful. Symptoms do lessen with age and determination. Proper social risk taking, while innate for most beyond the age of 25, is still something I must learn many years beyond.

  261. You, I have much hope for. My BPD…..not so much.

    Your shared thoughts bring up another theory which I have had for some time. Most BPDs I have known (and I have known quite a few over my lifetime), fall mainly into two groups; those that are more to the NPD/BPD line and then those that fall into a more Autism Spectrum/BPD alignment. You seem more likely to be in the second grouping.

    That is very hopeful, IMHO, for you.

    While both types have little ability to understand or relate to others, the AS group generally feels much less entitlement and therefore has greater hope of finding ways to unravel the mystery of “others”. The NPD aligned group is more inclined to demand that the “others” accommodate them.

    The NPD type thinks of people as things. Things that can be used for whatever purpose needed. AS types tend to view people as intellectual puzzles, frustrating but interesting.

    NPD types are ALL emotion – ALL the time. AS types are much more inside baseball kinds….they analyze and inspect.

    Here is the big grain of hope: While the NPD group will almost always find enablers to perpetuate their out of control emotional destruction, the AS group is usually left to figure it out by themselves. The NPDs will always find a way to distract themselves from their part in their problems, the AS will never be able to quiet the logical part of their brain telling them to look inward.

    While neither type has the ability to truly understand or “walk in another man’s shoes”, the AS can understand that this is a reality to which he must adapt while the NPD will continue to be angry that the world does not conform to make him happy.

    You will probably never be able to deal with large social groups, but under the right circumstances you can find similarly analytical companions with which to share small parts of yourself. Also, if your social group tends to be full of AS folk, they are much more tolerant of occasional weirdness, lol.

  262. to: Anonymous on April 11th, 2017 1:22 am
    “I understand completely what you are saying but it sounds like the other person will never get any relief and staying in the relationship or marriage is pointless.”

    I don’t know if it’s pointless. It was only a reply to Ryan. I think if the BPD has no insight of what he’s doing to the other person with his rages and if there is now understanding of wrongdoing or remorse existing what can you do? Wait until you’re totaly destroyed and think about suicide?
    If you were exposed of those rages for a long time (verbaly ot physicaly or both)hmmm isnt’t it realistic to assume that it will never stop or reach a level that allows the victim to have some happyness in his life or some freedom of not to fear of the expectable next rage.
    In my experience (not as a prof but simply as somebody who has sustained this for years) when they are used doing this to you they won’t stop as long you are in their reach.
    I don’t know if a BPD can understand the harm he’s doing (might be) or can change his ways (might be, but i’m unsure if it can be in a sufficant way). But it won’t happen in your actual relationship.
    Maybe there is some kind of event that can cause a BPD to look inside (I wonder of what kind it might be but it’s a pity not many borderlines are in this blog or would answer) and starts searching for his life’s problems by himself and not blaming or terrorizing others.
    But I’m quite sure it’s not because the partner is telling them: “You are hurting my badly with your words or actions. This is not normal. Do something about it instantly!”

  263. I’m a therapist, a professional, and yes, I’ve been married to someone who is probably diagnosable with BPD for the last 31 years. I say probably because he has comorbid issues, ADHD, for one, and I used to think Bipolar Disorder, though not entirely sure. He has always seemed to have an underlying depressive thing about him – outwardly ok, but most often critical, judgmental, disliking others, etc. He’s also always been extremely opinionated, talks incessantly about his opinions, generally over the top of me and others, and doesn’t seem to have a clue about how his behavior might hurt someone’s feelings – either that, or he doesn’t care.

    I’m in the middle of yet another of my husband’s rages. My family of origin regards me as an eternal optimist, and says I’ve always been that way, from childhood. Perhaps that’s why I tend to “forget” these horrible episodes when things seem to be going so well, and then, poof, I’m back in the thick middle of an inhumane experience.

    This rage was triggered by our young adult son answering his father with what his dad regarded as a disrespectful remark. It wasn’t meant as disrespectful, son apologized, but now father tells him he’s kicking him out in 3 months, has to remove his gaming system from the den, has to be on his own cell phone plan, pick up his car insurance, etc. This, to a young man who is trying to finish EMT training and get ready for fire academy. He’s a very good son, and not a problem. Dad, on the other hand, has been a monster. Seriously.

    I’ve lived through years of abusive remarks, silent treatments that have lasted up to 9 months, physical altercations in the early years of the marriage, and sessions with 3 or 4 different therapists who all said they had no idea what to do with him and referred us out.

    I love the person he is when things are good, but to be honest, our circle of communication just keeps narrowing. You see, I avoid anything that might be a trigger. So, we don’t talk about his favorite topic – politics, or about religion and “end times” because I’m more of a “live today” Christian.

    I’m weary and worn out and my health has suffered immensely. I’m grateful for our precious children that I wouldn’t have had without him. But, I’m frankly heartsick that I’m going through this again with someone who comes home from his OTR trucking job to sit in front of World of Tanks and obsessively play all weekend long, rage at the game, and then rage at the family because he’s gotten so upset.

    I feel I deserve better and this life, though, I strive to be grateful and make it good, I regret ever getting involved with him. When he loves me, he really loves me. Just the night before he blew at me (which wasn’t even about me), he was texting me multiple love notes. Then, I only said, “I’m going to work now. I can’t handle yelling today.” That caused him to explode, say there is no “us,”, I don’t back him up, I’m a pig, can’t put him a meal together, etc. It made NO sense, and just went on and on. He wouldn’t allow me to even answer a word he was saying, just kept monologging until he was sure he’d said all the hateful things he wanted to say. Then, he texted me and our son, and continued the awful things he was saying and doing.

    He has spent our entire married lifetime keeping me and the kids upset. Because of my spiritual beliefs, it would be very hard to call off the marriage. So, I guess I’m learning to be long-suffering.

    But, my last words are this – – if you suspect someone even has a hint of these tendencies, run, get away, find another life for yourself. This is too hard, and treating someone else so badly is inexcusable. Once you get in, you may find it too hard to get out.

    1. Hi Anonymous,

      Thanks for your comment and sorry for your troubles. As a therapist you know better than anyone else where this relationship leads.

      I understand you have strong spiritual beliefs. You take your marriage vows to your husband and god seriously.

      However I don’t think you are expected to suffer because of your husband’s illness. It is up to him to get treatment. His rages are hurting you and your children. You wrote your health is already suffering. Is this what you signed up for, even if it’s the “worse” part of “for better or worse”?

      During my worst BPD moments I didn’t want to be abandoned. But looking back, my behavior was so out of control that getting help was the only option. Now I wouldn’t expect people to tolerate me long term. A bad day or week is one thing. But continual rages and outbursts are unacceptable. Staying enables his behavior.

      We suffer in life from things we can not control: tragedy, weather, illness, misfortune. But when we choose to suffer, that is another issue entirely. There are no bonus points for that decision. It only makes matters worse.

      Good luck to you and your family, thank you so much for your story.

  264. Thank you so much admin, i read every word on this huge webpage and I still wish there were more. I am a woman who was married to BPD man.

    I just wanted to add my story. I am non-BPD. I read Lundy Bancrofts book Why Does He do that? and came to the conclusion I was in an abusive relationship, after 20 years together. I don’t know the difference between an “abusive relationship” and a relationship with a BPD, but in reading this blog, I can’t tell if there is even a difference.

    The smallest mistake on my part would cause him to react like I was the worst enemy he could ever encounter. I was berated, humiliated, intimidated, threatened, beaten, choked, and the walls had holes and windows were broken. I would immediately curl into a ball of apology after I made the “mistake” and agree how stupid and dumb I was and how I was so lucky he was so forgiving. I would never fight back verbally or physically because that would lead to an even worse punishment. I would just cower submissively and try not to cry (he thought when i cried it was to try and manipulate him).

    After about 10 years of this I had my “act” perfected. The physical rages and out of control screaming tantrums got less and less severe because:

    1. I learned to avoid bringing situations to him that may cause him distress. I avoided friends and family. I handled all the housework and bills and working, while he sat at home. I became very good at managing his stress by taking on many burdens for myself out of my love for him. I learned to anticipate his reactions.

    2. I learned how to react when he did ‘flip out’. When I failed to prevent something from happening that caused an episode, I learned how to soothe and placate him. I would immediately step in with no emotion on my face whatsoever except the guilt of causing him pain. I would tell this raging 6 foot tall 230 lb toddler that I was sorry and how I would learn from my mistake. Please don’t get angry and I will take care of the situation. I would act sorry for hours or days until he got over it. And I would never bring it up again or demand an apology.

    These tactics brought me much peace in my life. That is until I had a nervous breakdown. I was using all my energy on him, and I had an emotional meltdown at last. And I left him. I had many years with him, but he wore away at me like water on a stone. And now he’s alone and blames me.

    And I am with someone so much better, so much nicer. I feel bad for my ex but I would never want to go back to that mistreatment. I

    This has been my story. I am just trying now to move on, have therapy to build my self esteem up, and use my energy on building a wonderful life for myself, far away from him. Life is wonderful on the other side. You have just got to recognize you are worth it.

    1. Dear thanks_for_blog,

      Thank you for your comment and story. Though having a nervous breakdown was certainly troubling, it led to personal reawakening. Many times that happens because our true selves, deep inside, have been nearly obliterated. In a last ditch effort, everything falls apart for the better. It’s strange how things work like this.

      I can’t tell from your story whether or not your ex is Borderline. A couple missing components were threats of self harm (cutting, suicide attempts, etc), addiction (drugs, alcohol, pills), extreme reactions if you threatened to leave (fear of abandonment). Was he like this with others whom he knew best, or just you? He might not have beaten others up, maybe just raged on them. It’s possible he could have some other personality disorder bordering on something truly dangerous given the abuse you suffered.

      You should only remember the behavior pattern you witnessed so you can avoid similar people in the future. I’m happy you’ve found someone better.

      Therapy will teach you many things about yourself. You might experience symptoms of PTSD, Stockholm Syndrome (rationalizing your husband’s behavior, even liking him just to survive) and Codependency. Generally speaking, codependency happens when someone has emotional reliance on their partner, despite the partner’s disease or addiction. Think “caretaker without personal boundaries”. This isn’t blame, it’s insight.

      I sincerely wish you best as you continue to recover and heal.

  265. Hello thanka for your reply!! to answer your question..

    No threats of self harm. No addiction unless you count staying awake all night on the couch with porn. I never threatened to leave BECAUSE I was afraid of his extreme reaction. I would fear for my physical safety and never ever threatened him to leave (if you do this again I will leave) because he would have either 1) done the action again just to test me, or 2) done any and all emotional and physical things except what I forbade. And my goal was not to just emiminate

  266. Thank u for your article it was helpful
    re: compassion and understanding the BPD suffererrer. It wound be much more helpful if you could include the suffering of the non-BPD partner since the partners level of emotional pain feels just as intense as a result of the BPDs unpredictable outbursts. People with BPD need to practice empathy through acquiring and practicing mindfulness without this practice implemented how can a suffering BPD person unlearn their learned behavior. A significant amount of People that have BPD learned their behavior so just think how helpful it could be if BPD people could practice thinking about meeting other peoples needs before meeting their own needs first. There’s a reason why even most counselors get frustrated at the thought of counseling someone with BPD since it’s a character issue and not a Chemical imbalance in the brain, rather poor role models witnessed during childhoid is in large part the culprit.

    Just the fact that they conceal their BPD behavior for the privacy of their homes bullying their loved ones covertly but consistently not the people they want to impress in public. This alone must tell you that they can certainly control themselves more than you give them credit for, so please don’t focus so much on the BPD person’s need for compassion and understanding when itheir target partners feel the same level of pain but just not in such a self centered mode. So please Let’s get the BPD people more accountabke rather than handle their destructive abusive behavior with kid gloves.

    1. Hi Kathy, thanks for your comment and insight. I generally agree BPD could be replicating learned behavior: I suspect my mother has NPD or BPD (or BPD with N traits).

      You’re also correct that non-BPDs suffer, and do so greatly. Some of it is due to being trusting and loving people. Hopefully these people either leave their BPD or demand they get treatment. In others with a pattern of coupling with BPDs, I think codependency looms large. Codependent behavior can also be learned. I suspect my father has some codependent traits for tolerating my Mother all these years. Either that, or he is so emotionally tone deaf that her attacks don’t hurt him. 🙂 This is a separate issue and also a possibility.

      Do you have any research suggesting BPD is learned? I’ve read it can be genetically heritable. I’ve also read personality disordered parents have a high likelihood of producing similar children, though it isn’t always guaranteed. The “apple doesn’t fall far from the tree.”

      To be clear, I don’t want to get into parent bashing. Once in adulthood, getting help for BPD is the responsibility of the individual. Part of therapy is processing difficult childhoods, but one can not blame parents forever without living in the past and taking on a horrific victim complex.

  267. Just got out of the BPD nightmare with my ex girlfriend. My father was bipolar so I have some experience with a person with metal illness, I loved my father very much but I was able to move out of his rath when old enough.
    If the person with BPD won’t admit they have a problem and get help the non needs to get out! Those with BPD don’t have any idea how damaging it is to everyone one around them and if they can’t face it and get help they will just push the ones they love away. Let’s face it i here ppl with BPD on here say it’s not there falt and there right but if they don’t get help then yes it’s all your falt no matter how much the non may love you the things you do and say will distort any chance for a healthy relationship
    I was with my girlfriend for 6 painful years she wanted to have a kid and knowing what she would do to a child I just couldn’t have a kid with her it would be a Irresponsible thing for me to do. So ppl with BPD it is your falt for not getting help us non BDP need to stop coddling them and letting them get away with the abuse they inflict on us so stop your BPD bullshit your distorting some good ppl that love you and have tried to help you need to get a grip and get the help but don’t ever think we non need to stick around while you crush us.

  268. Although these comments do offer some insight I’ve found them to be particularly unhelpful to my BPD self; I know I’m not a bad person, I’m not violent towards others EVER, I don’t spend my entire life kicking off, yes I can get angry and rant about seemingly innocuous occurrences, have a short fuse and am extremely emotional but I am empathetic and kind and I’ve had plenty of people take liberties with my kindness; leading only to further heartache on my behalf. I’ve never said really awful things to my husband because I love him and he is a wonderful man, but I have tried to push him away to save him and myself the pain – him through dealing with my ups and downs and me through my extreme anxiety over abandonment. Whilst I appreciate each persons’ experience (as BPD or non) is individual to them I would urge anyone reading this thread to look elsewhere…this is literally a set of the most unhelpful, condemning comments I have ever read! Luckily I am having a good day and I refuse to believe I am unfixable and unworthy of my families’ love as seems to be the general consensus…I also believe there are varying degrees of BPD and that it is unfair to tar us all with the same brush. Anyone fighting BPD, keep fighting the good fight and to those living with it, I commend you! But then I guess when you really love someone you do the best you can.

    1. to: HorrifiedBPDSufferer
      A lot of “Non” people here experienced constant verbal and some (like me for example) also never ending physical abuse. If you don’t do those things you don’t have to relate these comments on you. If it’s that way “I know I’m not a bad person” and “I refuse to believe I am unfixable and unworthy of my families’ love as seems to be the general consensus” you don’t have to write those things.
      But I definitely believe that people destoying other people by constant verbal and physical abuse are bad and mean. A human is defined by his/her actions. This does not rule out a change but as long as this doesn’t happen and a person goes on with his evil ways this one is just a bad person you need to avoid. Nobody can handle this a long time and this is a personal experience. I thought otherwise in the past but I had to learn that lesson the painful way. And also the other “condemers” on this blog started with a lot of compassion. The contact with BPD brought us to where we are now.

  269. to Gordon:

    Good decision not to have a child with her.
    “knowing what she would do to a child I just couldn’t have a kid with her it would be a Irresponsible thing for me to do”.
    I had exacely the same thoughts some years ago. But only affer child number one when she wanted a second. I absolutly refused. I’m glad that my daughter was born and that she exists in my life. But if I would have known before what did expect me during pregnacy an the first four years when a was still living with her mother I don’t know what I would have done. What a horror.

    “So ppl with BPD it is your falt for not getting help us non BDP need to stop coddling them and letting them get away with the abuse they inflict”
    You call on them to be accountable for their actions. My ex never was and as I came to believe in all those years never will be. If a conversation (I still have to deal with her because of our daughter) was ABCD she will tell you shortly after it was DACB. And absolutely convincing. How to be acountable for some action you reconstruct in your head the way it pleases you. I’m hopeless in this regard.

  270. I can’t help but be envious of someone with a bpd gf or bf. At least you can (and should) escape. As the mother of a bpd daughter who would be homeless without my assistance, I’m stuck with her till the day I die. She has only been diagnosed in recent years (she’s in her mid 40’s) so her son and I have suffered her rages for a looong time, not knowing what her problem was. She also self-medicates with alcohol which only exacerbates the problem. As a result it’s like living with a tantrum throwing 4 y/old with a women’s body who can legally drink. I’ve forked out a small fortune of my life’s savings on psychologists etc. for her, which she repays me with the most disgusting verbal tirades. I’ve employed super-human restraint and empathy because to do otherwise makes her spiral even more out of control. I believe she is even capable of murdering me. It seems to me that very few bpd’s overcome this ailment, and will only make another person’s life or lives a misery

    1. Dear Envious,

      Very sorry to hear about your predicament. Have you, yourself consulted a therapist for guidance on how to cope with the situation? I can tell you are torn between wanting to care for your daughter, wanting her to get better and yet terribly afraid of how she acts.

      There are couple strategies, both of which end the same way.

      1. Incremental. Talk about her drinking as a 3rd person in the room. Tell her how much her drinking affects you, her and your family. Get her into a 12 step program, outpatient treatment or group support center.

      This may alleviate the alcohol abuse. Also, many people with addiction have underlying mental health problems, in this case BPD. A good counselor, group or 3rd party support will identify this and work on it.

      If that works begin encouraging small changes and increases in responsibility.

      Finally, she is to leave the house. Period. She is 40, not 24, 14 or 4. You are not obligated to support her or tolerate her rages, particularly once she’s back on her feet.

      2. Kick her out now. Rash but could be effective. Supporting dysfunctional people indefinitely enables two things: 1) Continued bad behavior, 2) Never learning any responsibility.

      All of this easily written anonymously on a blog! I understand you may carry a sense of guilt and responsibility for your daughter. She may have suffered trauma as a child. Or you beat yourself up for not getting her help while she was young. Those feelings are relevant but not productive right now.

      You are under no obligation to continue her “care” as a full grown adult into her 40s. Give her a chance to get better on her own. You’ve done so much it is beginning to hurt you.

      Finally, consult professionals at every step. They’re experts for a reason. Get custody of the child or send him to the father. Otherwise he will become collateral damage. It is extremely unhealthy for a child to grown up in such an environment. Your efforts are better spent on him/her.

  271. Hey. It’s so interesting to read all these posts. My younger sister has, I suspect, BPD (and a bunch of other psychiatric problems) and my family and I are trying to make sense of the behaviors we are encountering. I’ll tell you, a loved one with BPD is so hard to manage.

    To people who tell you to cut the BPD person out of your life, I sometimes wish I could. But she’s my sister and I love her, and I know the wonderful person she “could” be, and besides she is single-parenting a vulnerable young child. Without the support of the rest of the family, they’d be homeless and on the streets. I understand the pain and fear of abandonment that is behind the passive-aggressive, nasty, confrontations and the blind-fury rages. So I will not walk away – not yet.

    But to all those with BPD, there is only so much your friends and family can do to help. Fundamentally, YOU have to recognize the disorder and seek professional help before you drive away everyone who loves you in a tragic, self-fulfilling prophecy. Right now my sister it terrified that her social worker and psychiatrist will diagnose her with BPD, because she’s afraid of the accompanying potential for stigma from others. She also is wary of letting her daughter work with a family therapist because she’s afraid she might be taken away. While I understand her concerns, the truth is that if she can’t accept she has a problem then how can she ever work on it? At this point in time, she believes that the whole rest of her family is a bunch of narcissists, that her therapists are incompetent, and that she’s a victim. She’s paranoid and questions everyone’s motives, no matter how kind or generous. I sometimes wonder if there’s really any hope for her. Or any hope of her being able to have a close, normal relationship with anybody.

    So, what do I do? I’m emotionally exhausted and my relationships with my husband and kids are stressed. My son, who suffered as the victim of her rage at age 12, says he hates her and wants nothing to do with her. I find myself avoiding interactions with her because the stress makes me feel physically ill. The way I feel about being around her is kind of like you’d feel if your beloved pet dog you’d had for years got rabies and started randomly attacking you and your loved ones. You love what they used to be, but are so traumatized by who they are now that you don’t want them anywhere near you or those you care about.

    And as a final note, I think it’s important to reiterate to those with BPD that when you rage at those who love you, when you go all nasty or violent on them, THIS IS ABUSE. How long can you reasonably expect the people in your life to willingly subject themselves to an abusive situation? If they are really strong or stubborn and love you deeply, they might hold out a good long while. They might even hold up until they die. Which will probably come as a relief to them after years of abuse. So please, I beg you all, get real therapy for your own sake, and if needed encourage those who love you to seek therapy too. They probably need it.

    1. You are a brave person. I wish I knew some good advice how to deal with your sister. But I have not I failed myself trying for years to come to terms especially with those rages.
      Stay strong somehow.

    2. Juliana, I would highly recommend setting strict boundaries between yourself and your sister. And then even stricter boundaries between your sister and other loved ones in your life: husband and son (especially).

      Your situation is more complicated than most, in part because your sister has a child. Your family is doing the right thing trying to help her on behalf of the child. But if things don’t improve, it might be time to prioritize the child over your sister (if possible).

      I really can’t emphasize boundaries enough. It sounds like a cheap concept pop psychologists use, but they can help manage stress and difficult relationships wonderfully.


      1. You (sister) do not socialize with my son unless I’m in the room.
      2. You (sister) do not get money, handouts or unlimited support in emergency situations. Your family will help you X times, after that, you’re on your own. Support without limits becomes enabling behavior.
      3. You do not come to our house drunk, high or emotionally unhinged. My family, husband and son will not tolerate it, nor should they.
      4. If you want our relationship to improve, get treatment immediately. It is up to you.
      5. Do not hate us for loving you, even though I know you are really hurting.
      6. I’m here to talk and offer support but I will not tolerate abuse, hate, rage or desperate threats in front of myself or my family. My husband and son are my priority.


      Wish you the best.

  272. Dear borderlines – just a thought – you can explain it away all you want to – ask someone to “understand” yet continue to exhibit the same behaviors over and over – well – here is the thing… NO ONE and I mean NO ONE is going to stick around you long enough to care – the truth is if you don’t have to deal with a boarderline – you don’t – so take some responsibility and fix your symptoms to the point of functionality or face a lifetime alone

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